tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-89969746842435279072024-03-17T20:04:06.348-07:00BIGFOOT'S bLOGCryptic News from the Willow Creek View. Transhuman Sasquatch Strangeness from the Middle of Nowhere.
A Voice Howling out from the Klamath-Trinity-Siskiyou Wilderness. This is the Megaphone of Steven Streufert and Bigfoot Books, a Used Book Store in Willow Creek, Humboldt County, Extreme Northern California.Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.comBlogger158125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-42225888661299219462017-01-01T20:23:00.000-08:002017-01-01T20:25:09.125-08:00A Packet from John Green on Peter Byrne, Part One<b><span style="color: #990000;">BIGFOOT'S BLOG<br />January 1st, 2017 Edition</span></b><br />
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Back in early 2010 we received a very interesting packet in the postal mail from Canada from none other than the Moses of Bigfooting, JOHN GREEN. Included therein was the ultra-rare and unusual, "never-in-print" short work, PETER AND THE SASQUATCH: A FARCE NOW IN ITS THIRD ACT. Words by Peter Byrne. Very Interesting!!!<br />
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Here this blog will present the first document, with a total of 18 pages. As you can see in the image here, there were others included. We'll get to those in a second part.<br />
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Yes, this is an artifact of the old-school Bigfooting Wars, which really began in 1958, reaching a peak during the time of the Pacific Northwest Expedition in Bluff Creek, which started with Green, Titmus and Dahinden, with others, and was financed by Tom Slick. Green and Dahinden both bailed out early on, when conflicts arose. Eventually Peter Byrne was brought in to run the show.<br />
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This document is presented as it is, without judgement or assessment on the part of this blog. It is posted here as an historical artifact of importance to the history of the pursuit of Bigfoot. Unfortunately, the original photocopy we received from Green was somewhat faint. I've adjusted the contrast a bit to make them ore legible. Enjoy. Click images to enlarge and better read. A "right-click" with the mouse to open in another tab will make them really large.<br />
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">Page Eight</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">Page Ten</span></td></tr>
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Well, that's it for now.</div>
Happy New Year to all.<br />
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">RIP, John Green, a man who built much of the reason <br />
and logic, what there is of it, into Bigfooting.<br />
Photo from the Sasquatch Summit.<br />
View the video from Believe It Tour here:<br />
<a href="https://youtu.be/RKwc331mnxc">https://youtu.be/RKwc331mnxc</a></td></tr>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com14tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-48418336952280670602016-11-07T12:00:00.000-08:002016-11-11T17:07:02.521-08:00CryptoBlast Blog and Steven Streufert, "Interview with a Critical Thinker," in Three Parts<div>
<b><span style="color: #990000;">BIGFOOT'S BLOG,</span></b></div>
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<b><span style="color: #990000;">November 8th, 2016</span></b></div>
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Here's Part One, Two, and Three of a long, written interview with the CryptoBlast blog. </div>
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This was 22 pages in WORD when all was said and done, so each segment is 6-7 pages long.</div>
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The non-illustrated text-only version is included here, below.</div>
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PART ONE:</div>
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<a href="http://thecryptoblast.blogspot.com/2016/10/interview-with-critical-thinker-steven.html">http://thecryptoblast.blogspot.com/2016/10/interview-with-critical-thinker-steven.html</a></div>
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"Who is Steven Streufert? You might have seen him on a Bigfoot documentary on Destination America, or in the movie Willow Creek, or even on Animal Planet's Finding Bigfoot. He is the owner of the infamous Bigfoot Books bookstore in Willow Creek and an online blogger who is affiliated with the Bluff Creek trail cam project. We sat down with Steven and asked him a series of questions on the topic of Bigfoot. What is he? is he a skeptic? A researcher? A hater? Let's dive into the complex mind of a man that Rictor Riolo from Bigfoot Bounty calls a walking Bigfoot encyclopedia!"</div>
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PART TWO:</div>
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<a href="http://thecryptoblast.blogspot.com/2016/10/interview-with-critical-thinker-steven_10.html">http://thecryptoblast.blogspot.com/2016/10/interview-with-critical-thinker-steven_10.html</a></div>
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"Last week we began our 3-part interview with Steven Streufert of Bigfoot Books. This Monday Steven talks about the pros and cons of having the most crucial Facebook group for the study of Sasquatch, social media's influences, his involvement with TV/movies, and what gives him the biggest headache when it comes to being one of the most hated and admired personalities in the world of Sasquatch."</div>
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PART THREE:</div>
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<a href="http://thecryptoblast.blogspot.com/2016/10/interview-with-critical-thinker-steven_17.html">http://thecryptoblast.blogspot.com/2016/10/interview-with-critical-thinker-steven_17.html</a></div>
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"Two weeks ago we began our 3-part interview with Steven Streufert of Bigfoot Books. Today Steven brings the interview to a controversial and brutally honest conclusion by talking about the "woo" factor in Bigfoot and the loss of “scientific” pursuit in discovering this creature. After decades of research it's not looking too good for Bigfoot."</div>
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<b><span style="color: #990000;">TEXT ONLY VERSION, in full...</span></b></div>
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CRYPTOBLAST: Steven Streufert, what first got your interest in Bigfoot?</div>
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STEVEN STREUFERT: I was interested in Bigfoot when I first heard of it, at the age of nine or ten, when my family went to a triple-feature of monster movies at the drive-in. I saw what I think was the Patterson-DeAtley documentary of Bigfoot and the PGF. I recall Bigfoot on a very large screen, walking across the view from our car, larger than life of course, and very life-like. That image enchanted me, and I never really stopped imagining what those primeval forests might be like, where such mysterious creatures could live, as I was growing up and over the decades since. Of course, as you know, I eventually found myself living in the area where that film was shot, and where a lot of the strange origins and history of “Bigfoot” can be found.</div>
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CRYPTOBLAST: Tell us about how you settled in Willow Creek and created Bigfoot Books? Also tell us about some of the famous faces you have seen over the years.</div>
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STEVEN STREUFERT: I came to Humboldt County for graduate school (Literature and English), essentially following the redwoods up the coast. I started at an elementary school in Santa Barbara where a small plantation of redwoods grew down by the creek in back, and then ended up in Santa Cruz for college. Humboldt seemed a good next step, as I was drawn more to forests and mountains than big cities. I lived in Berkeley for a while, but decided against that. After I finished my degrees in the late 90s, I let my mind wander a bit, and one day I found myself considering a copy of Rene Dahinden’s book at one of the used book shops where I worked. All of those old enchantments and memories of reading the whole rack of Bigfoot books in the public library in the early to mid seventies came flooding back.</div>
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I was living at the time up in the mountains above Blue Lake, a ways inland from the coast, on 350 acres of redwood forest surrounded by countless more acres of logging company land. Living in such woods, one naturally starts to feel that the woods are watching, and are full of life. We had all sorts of animals around us up there. The fascination grew as I moved to Willow Creek, not to “find Bigfoot” there, but because it was sunny, a nice small town, and the houses were affordable. We had a baby on the way, so it seemed a good move. Of course, it wasn’t long before I began to realize how full of “Bigfoot” the town was, especially with the classic Jim McClarin Bigfoot sculpture from 1967 that I recalled from all the old books sitting right there on the corner in the middle of town. I was surprised to find that locals still reported Bigfoot sightings, and that many of the old-timers from the late fifties heyday were still alive and living in town.</div>
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I sold used and rare books online from our home there for a number of years, but rapidly filled up that house with far too many books. With a toddler crawling and then running around the place, something had to change. Seven-foot stacks of boxes and books wouldn’t do. So, it was decided (mainly by my ex) that the books should find another home. Opening a public shop seemed a good idea, not so much for the money it would make, but as an office for the online business, and as a public lure for the Bigfoot topic. I was curious what I might find, especially after the 2003 International Bigfoot Symposium was held right here in our town. By then I was fairly well persuaded that Bigfoot might actually be real. In 2005 I opened the shop, and found myself eventually filling the role once handled by old-timer Al Hodgson--that of the one sitting in one of the few go-to places around the “Bigfoot Mecca,” where one could actually talk about Bigfoot. There was the Willow Creek-China Flat Museum over in downtown, but they weren’t really personally immersed in the topic. By 2005 I certainly was, and I began to realize there was a whole community of people worldwide who looked for this creature, or who were just enthusiasts for the culture of it. Since then, I’ve seen a huge variety of people from the Bigfooting world here, just about everyone, it seems. I’ve never really had to go out and “find” Bigfoot (though I have gone out looking, of course). It just came to me through the front door of my shop. Before I knew it, the thing was taking up most of my work day, especially after I started going public, writing and publishing on the topic, in 2007.</div>
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CRYPTOBLAST: Can you tell us what a customer will find when they first walk into your bookstore?</div>
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STEVEN STREUFERT: Well, I have some 16 years of accumulation of oddball Bigfoot stuff, all over the walls and here and there. I don’t really collect it like a museum, though, I sell it, so, the best things are eventually sold. Bobo (James Fay, from the “Finding Bigfoot” show) buys a good deal of the rare stuff I get. In fact, he gets a bit offended if I don’t offer things to him first. He’s easily my best customer in here, challenged only by a Tibetan Buddhist monk. He says he puts what he buys in his safe and locks it up, expecting a huge return on his investment after Bigfoot is proven to be real. I know the truth, though, which is that Bobo gives most of it away.</div>
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What people will see here, however, isn’t really some kind of a Bigfoot shop. I have a whole building full of books in ALL topics, seven rooms of general interest and only three or four shelves of books on Sasquatch-Bigfoot-Yeti. I laugh at those online troll-fools who try to suggest I am exploiting Bigfoot for profit. Having to talk about Bigfoot every day, sometimes for hours, actually costs me money. Going on trips to Bluff Creek costs me money, and days from work. The sales of books or whatever related to Bigfoot make a pale effort to make up for that lost work time, and in the good parts of the year maybe will pay for the rent and beer. A three-hour conversation about the Patterson-Gimlin film with a customer who buys one $20 book is not profit. I might make $8 on that book. See how that works out?</div>
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What people will here see are massive piles of books everywhere, shelves overflowing with them, rooms full of them in a building that looks like a house, perhaps around 60,000 of them, including Romance, Horror, History, Science, Poetry, Literature, Philosophy, or whatever else. Still, the Bigfooters and Bigfoot fans keep coming. I can’t really explain it, but I think it is mainly to talk with me, not to buy a book. That’s OK. It’s usually fun.</div>
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CRYPTOBLAST: What do you call yourself? A researcher? A skeptic? An arm chair warrior? A champion of the woo?</div>
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STEVEN STREUFERT: In regard to Bigfoot, I’m just someone who is curious. It started out here as an aspect of local history, of my community, where I found it was a big part of its conscious history, layered on top of the background in Native culture, frontier mining, logging, fishing (and of late, pot growing). Bigfoot began to intrigue me as a cultural element, one in which I also had a background as a child of the Seventies, a fan of “In Search Of…”, and just about anything strange and unusual.</div>
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When I lived in Mount Shasta City I studied the odd culture UFOs and the strange legends of Lemurians and a subterranean race of Ascended Masters. But see, I’ve been a skeptical, critical thinker since I renounced “Woo” in the late 1980s. I study these things as interesting sociological and psychological issues. I used to be a big “believer” in these things, growing up as a Christian and a sort of natural mystic, but ran into a big wall of disillusionment with all of it eventually. So, in a way, I was debunking parts of myself, of my own belief habits, these tendencies to accept the unproven that lurk in our culture. I began to demand solid evidence for things believed and found it was enjoyable and liberating to debunk myths and urban legends. One HAS to do this if one has ever been in any kind of cultic belief, as I was, in the 80s, when I studied Theosophy and the Occult.</div>
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I’d argue that ALL of us are raised in this manner of thinking, of just accepting things on faith, or because we want an escape from prosaic reality and the physical facts of decay and death. We want transcendence, and will believe what makes us feel better about existence, or what offers a seeming liberation from facts. I chose to confront these tendencies, and to forge ahead as a curious skeptic. It’s not the easiest path to take in life, but if I believe in anything it is truth and radical honesty. I’m not going to accept any myths as mere comfort in life. I’m going to try to discover the raw reality of things, even if that means a universe of cold space, and incomprehensibly distant but wondrous stars and galaxies. In this pursuit, I would say that the best assurance of knowledge becoming equivalent to reality is the use of logic, science, and critical thinking, applied to just about everything. Obviously, you can’t apply these to *everything* in life, but they are the best guides.</div>
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With the culture of Bigfooting, after a decade and a half of involvement with the often loony culture of it, I’ve chosen to draw a very firm line. I simply will not accept ANY of this Woo-woo stuff, unless it can substantiate itself as real. I also won’t accept just any old supposed piece of “flesh-and-blood” physical evidence or a mere story, just because it is part of the “accepted” canon of Bigfoot history. Much of the stuff claimed as supporting Bigfoot’s existence just doesn’t hold water, certainly not to a real scientific or even an historical standard. Much of it is the product of hoaxing, of fantasy, and often just plain delusion. Much of what happened in Bluff Creek was essentially a joke played by locals on outsiders. This is an obvious fact if you live here and investigate it honestly, despite the protestations of the “true believers.” The wheat must be sorted from the chaff, if one values the truth. So, I’m largely a cultural critic, a student of the history of the field, but also a practitioner of outdoors exploration and observation.</div>
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Yes, we studied the Patterson-Gimlin film and Bluff Creek history seriously for some three years before we were able to confirm the rediscovered film site itself, and I feel confident that we (Bluff Creek Project) have largely sorted fact from fiction in many related areas of this history. One thing we haven’t been able to do, though, is figure with any finality if that film subject is actually a real creature. The film remains anomalous, just ambiguous enough for it to rest in between fact and fiction, with its veracity or the possibility it was a hoax really an unsettled question. In the course of all of that time in Bluff Creek since 2007, actually out on the site and in the area around it, camping and hiking and driving, we did manage to do a lot of what so many in Bigfooting culture like to call “Field Research.” We are not professional scientists, or surveyors, but we have applied the principles of logic and science to everything we’ve done. We decided to set up Bluff Creek Project going forward as a wildlife survey using trail cameras strategically implemented in some of the most historical and biologically rich zones of the Bluff Creek basin. This is an ongoing study, which has produced great results in many areas, but has yet to find a single piece of convincing Bigfoot evidence. Our standards for what is “convincing,” though, are very high. Plus, we are honest about it. We won’t just claim any blurry brown thing in a photo is a Bigfoot. The null hypothesis seems to be the right conclusion at this point, that Bigfoot just isn’t there; but we will continue to look, hoping to get to the bottom of this thing somehow or other.</div>
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Could it be that Bigfoot just isn’t real? I have already acknowledged this as a distinct possibility, in fact a probability. I’d rather it were otherwise, but the case for Bigfoot just isn’t looking strong to me these days. Bigfoot seems to be a modern urban legend, based upon old mythologies, a living legend, so to speak, in the minds of people. Perhaps it's not, but that seems rather unlikely given the decades of fruitless searching, and all the truly bad evidence so far acquired. So, the question may in fact be one about the nature of belief, epistemology, rather than existence, or ontology. If Bigfoot does not exist, why do people believe things? Why is there a whole large subculture concerned with holding this belief and reinforcing it against skepticism and scrutiny? How can people think they’ve seen these creatures if they are not even real? How does this case relate to the other cases of belief among humans? Hence, the issue becomes sociological, and psychological, rather than zoological or anthropological. I find the conundrum fascinating. I will listen to all the stories people tell, and consider the meaning of their narratives along with the motives for such. If it proves true that there is a creature at the bottom of all of this, so much the better. I certainly don’t rule it out, and the claims of witnesses are the most interesting thing about it. Unfortunately, given the failures over the years of hundreds involved in actively trying to prove this thing real, I simply have to doubt it. </div>
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CRYPTOBLAST: You met Dr. Matthew Johnson, a clinical psychologist from Washington and Oregon who is polar opposite of everything you stand for. It is obvious he is now taking shape as a cult leader. He wants followers, people to believe his word and not question his authority, etc. His wild claims that Bigfoot can heal you and speak to you through mindspeak (telepathy), can transform into Orbs (flying balls of energy), travel through interdimensional portals, says Bigfoot has him teach their Bigfoot young, claims they can cloak (turn invisible), are shaping him to be the new Erik Beckjord. What are your thoughts on this delusional man? Is he a liar? A hoxer? A con artist? Or an attention whore?</div>
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STEVEN STREUFERT: Ha ha! Well, All of the above, eh? You kind of said it all already. I don’t really want to speak poorly of the man, really, but his claims are another thing. One can hardly address the claims without addressing the man, unfortunately, as they so obviously come *from* the man, and not from objective reality. Some of it is simple misinterpretation, with an overactive imagination obviously run rampant. He makes very obvious barred owl calls into “900 pound owls,” meaning, he thinks they are Sasquatch imitating owls. He records them for hours on end, and I will tell you right now, those are just owls. He also records himself mumbling and farting in his sleep, and then claims it is Bigfoot watching over him in the night as he sleeps out on his cot. Once, one of his “Bigfoot” even said “Fuck” in the middle of the night. Come on now, seriously? Many of the tracks he’s cast or identified, and many of his photos of “Bigfoot” are clearly just his own tracks and the snags and tree trunks of that area. We in fact identified many of these he’d claimed were Bigfoot when we went up there to “SOHA” to investigate. We found there innumerable Matthew Johnson tracks in the snow, but not a single one that could be said to be from a Bigfoot; and this is after he’d just been there the day before, and claimed “activity” all around camp all the several days he’d stayed there.</div>
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What we saw there was not a magical wonderland with a family or clan of Bigfoot living there, a mystical portal to another dimension, or anything like that at all, including anything like viable habitat up there on that ridge. It is an old logging road, and he camped right in the middle of the old road when he was going up there. The trail through the slightly older and fire-damaged woods past his camp was just the overgrown logging road, right along the BLM property borderline marked with tree sign tags. All around there were various stages of clearcuts of the woods, and down below where the creek flowed there was a row of houses. Nearby, on Google Earth, several marijuana grows and other buildings could be seen. This place was literally surrounded by people and what I’d consider “tree farm” forest, though it was a hilltop up in the woods. The ridgeline itself was perhaps a good way to travel for animals like bears and deer, but not a place really to stay. We found virtually no food sources up there (one small, sparse berry plant), and only a seeping mud puddle for water. This mud puddle, in fact, was the “Portal,” or so it seemed. The road in to the place came through a tunnel of young trees growing up over it, and could easily have created the illusion of a “portal” going through it if there were the right light and mist in the air. There seemed to us to be reasonable explanations for everything claimed, most of it coming from Johnson’s heightened imagination and expectancy, and the sense of anticipation of a foregone thing that he foisted upon everyone he took up there. It clearly was sheer confirmation bias, and maybe even some hoaxing. I would say that Adam Davies and John Carlson just got really spooked by Johnson’s “campfire tales,” as it were, and became absorbed into the very same waking dream that Johnson was living in. We would have done a more formal, extended “peer review” up there, but we began to get death and violence threats from Johnson’s followers, so it really didn’t seem worth it, especially when he picked up camp and ran away to a new location.</div>
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And, yeah, he still lives in that dream, over at his new “SOIA” location… only things have gotten much, much worse in the Woo-woo area. He promises a “Big Revelation” at his conference next year, but I’d bet it’s nothing we haven’t already seen from Kewaunee Lapseritis, you know, something about higher dimensions of reality, Bigfoot being on a higher vibration level, with alien or spiritual entities, and likely some UFOs thrown in for good flavor. I have to say, this is a farce, but even more farcical is the way he ran away from his old SOHA once we discovered it (using his own Google Earth image and other photos he posted, by the way, not due to some “Judas” as he claims). Now he denies the importance of collecting any evidence at all. He says, in such an easy way out, that it is now about “interaction,” and not to prove anything or to habituate any being. It’s all about “teachings” and “healings” now, with claims of magical superpowers. This is the usual deus ex machina, or metaphysical escape hatch, that has been used by charlatans since the beginning of all human superstitions. If you don’t have a real explanation for something and can’t prove it is real, just say it came from an even greater mystery, one that recedes into the mists only you can see. And yeah, then, convince your followers of such things, and feed on their adulation and donations. I do think he has become some sort of a cult leader in this way, as many follow him in his methods and thinking. It’s spreading like a virus, now representing the clear majority in the Bigfooting community, now burgeoning with newbies drawn in by less-than-scientific TV shows.</div>
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Meeting him, one gets the impression of sincerity; but one also feels pressured and manipulated. He has that air of the true believer, or rather, the fanatic. It seems like he really believes what he’s telling you, and he’ll even get teary eyed in emotion about it. Some call him a hoaxer and a liar, but I still am largely of the opinion that he really believes these things, and of that in which he doesn’t quite believe he manages to convince himself. The desire to confirm belief biases all interpretation, and can even lead to a partially-conscious manipulation of the evidence or stories. It’s truly bizarre, but even that wife of his seems to believe that there are Sasquatch thought-form orbs flying around in their bedroom in the Washington suburbs. He believes in religious things, supernatural things, already, so I suppose it isn’t that strange for him to just continue to believe *more* of these things beyond God and Jesus, Cain walking the Earth, prehistoric Giants, or whatever. Just add a little Bigfoot to your picture, stir in some pseudoscience Deepak Chopra “quantum” physics, and voila, it’s a magical realm of fantasy that becomes true the more he believes and practices it.</div>
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Here is the thing: many suggest that he is a psychologist, and he knows how to control and manipulate people. I would say, sure, he is talented in that area, but he has first convinced and manipulated himself. It is the nature of the true believer to try to bend reality to their wishes, rather than to recognize reality as it is based upon objective evidence. I don’t know if this is due to his claimed PTSD from his “encounter” with Bigfoot while shitting in the woods by Oregon Caves some 16 years ago, or if it is from his more recent (publicly admitted) traumatic brain injury, but he seems to have a desperate need for Bigfoot to be real. And it’s not just an ordinary Bigfoot, but one that ascends into the heavens and spiritual dimensions, one that ultimately meets with his “God.” He wants an explanation for everything, and he’s convinced he’s on the right path. He’s the model of the con-man fool, the charlatan who convinces others of his own delusion. I’m not sure if he consciously lies or hoaxes, but “for the Cause,” I don’t think he’d even recognize the difference. So deeply has he blurred the lines between reality and fantasy, I don’t think he even knows there IS a difference. Reality is what he wants it to be; a fine thing if one is in the safety of an institution, in a monastic order, or if one is writing a Science-Fiction novel, but not a good way to be in the objective world associating with other human beings. Part of the social contract is that we share a communicable, confirmable reality, based on verifiable facts. Jon-Erik Beckjord at least had his feet on the ground. I don’t know about this Johnson and where he’s taking this, but it sure looks like he’s waiting for the next comet, to me.</div>
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CRYPTOBLAST: Your Facebook group, Coalition for Critical Thinking in Bigfoot Reasearch (https://www.facebook.com/groups/smartbigfoot/) is very popular with science-based people following this mystery. Yet it has created you online enemies who harass and troll you on a daily basis. Why is that?</div>
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STEVEN STREUFERT: Well, you know, the Coalition is a critical thinking group. Skepticism is essential to critical or scientific thinking. We try to practice logic, within the melee of the debates on these crazy issues. We seek out the crazy stuff to discuss. There are many people involved in this Bigfooting thing who are practicing the craziness, believing in metaphysical things first, where it used to be about trying to be rational, trying to achieve credibility before the outside world, endeavoring to practice amateur “citizen science” in pursuit of an explanation to a mystery. OF COURSE, as those practicing skeptical agnosticism (generally, in the group) we piss off the true believers. We are doing the exact opposite thing as they are, even though both are involved with Bigfoot. We’d like to see proof of this thing, for sure, but we don’t try to mold reality to fit that desire. We are, and I am I guess especially, ruthless in the pursuit of the truth, and in applying logic and criticism to the claims, whatever they are. We won’t accept a “flesh and blood” footprint track any more readily than we will a gleaming Portal to Sirius or Lemuria.</div>
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Beyond the true believers, many of whom really just are afraid of us, there are rivals in the supposedly rational side of this thing, too. Mainly, they’re people we didn’t get along with in the Coalition group, those who maybe are used to being regarded as really smart in their private world of friends, but I suppose people who felt insulted at being questioned just like all the rest. I will say right here, I’m not into Bigfooting to make friends or to agree with a clique or faction, or whatever. I’m into it, as I said above, for the truth. If the truth is that Bigfoot simply does not exist, SO BE IT. Yes, then, they get angry, too. I think anyone who is trying to foist something on others which is unproven and potentially wrong or even fictional will always get hot under the collar when confronted. Even an otherwise rational person can have sacred cows. Most of them do, really, as they were drawn to this thing originally due to some need or other, perhaps because they think they have seen a Bigfoot, or because they have a deep inner attachment to paranormalist explanations of things, or even because they are already religious believers and have added the Bigfoot mystery to their bag of magical tricks. Many are just trying to feed their egos, or to feel “special” within a small subculture. Others are only out to make money or garner fame.</div>
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I don’t have an easy answer to this, but I’ve found that Bigfooters can be the best of people, very smart and original in their approach to reality, or they can be the stupidest, most bullheaded, illogical dunderheads with terribly fragile egos. In fact, consider this: since none of any of this thing has been established as fact, with scientific and objective basis, it really IS an edifice that stands on ego and belief assertion alone, along with the other side of it that stands on mere fantasy without a physical-world correlative at all. This is, I think, why it is so hard for some to accept questioning, and why they will hate, make death or violence threats, obsessively troll for months or even years on end… because something deep at the core of them, some weakness that drew them into the “paranormal” world to begin with, has been wounded and threatened. Instead of dealing with these feelings rationally, or through a sensible debate, they instead form alliances and troll their enemies, often spreading the most vile and false slander and libel. It’s sad that they can’t just stick to the issues and the claimed evidence, as that is where I am and where Coalition tries to stay. Yeah, of course we often cross certain lines in the group, but that’s to be expected with a group of over 3,000 people, with new and often adversarial (trolling) members added daily.</div>
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As I said before about Johnson, you really can’t separate the claims and the process from the people involved, because the people seem to be the real source of the supposed evidence and stories. It’s not like studying something like the Humboldt marten, where you can actually find reliable data on a very rare subspecies. I do often wonder what the good old days of Bigfooting were like, before the internet. I can remember back to 2003, when I first got involved with the “Community,” and it was certainly different then. You had to meet people, know your shit, and earn any regard that you got. Nowadays, it seems it’s just a bunch of entitled brats and outright liars or fools, who expect to be loved with their first story or theory. You know what? Reality just doesn’t work that way. Maybe Romper Room did, but not out here where things have to be tested, verified, and dumped if they are faulty. The trolls can be the worst thing of it all, as it all goes back to “butthurt,” and they lose all accountability to the facts. All that matters to them is self-defense and propaganda. It’s a sad thing to see people so lose touch with reality that all that matters to them is vengeance over things that never really mattered in the first place.</div>
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CRYPTOBLAST: Has social media ruined the mystery of Bigfoot? It seems to attract either the best or worst in people. Why is that?</div>
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STEVEN STREUFERT: You know, it certainly has made it more complex and bizarre, what with all of the trolling that goes on. You’d think the real quest were for a troll creature, not a so-called “Bigfoot.” I do recall the time before 2010 when the Facebook thing essentially took over the Bigfooting world, and it was different. People talked on the Forums sites, or through email lists. A lot of it was done anonymously, and there usually was a certain standard of mutual respect on these moderated venues. There were wars, mostly between the skeptics and the believers, but now the main war is within the believer camps, Bigfooting at war with itself. And now it is personal, as you can see all about someone on their personal pages. I’ve said it before, but short of some real, solid evidence, like a body that can be dissected, Bigfooter will dissect and tear apart each other.</div>
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Facebook in particular is almost too personal for this thing, because if your profile is open the trolls and enemies can really dig into one’s personal life. It can get rather disgusting, with slanderous accusations, bullying, harassment, stalking, Photoshop image manipulation, and just about everything else one can imagine happening. I think I’ve seen it all by now, including death and violence threats, someone shooting out a window in my bookstore, and whole troll alliances, with group names and pages, formed just to spread lies or harass. Back in the old days there was a focus on the *evidence* and *ideas*, but now it is all about the person. The substance of the thing tends to fall apart the more it is examined, too, especially with the claims made so often these days of things that cannot really be substantiated at all, or which are supported by the worst kinds of evidence. The blobsquatchers and mindspeakers tend to take any critical questioning incredibly personally, to the degree that all one can do in some of these groups is to agree with them and say “nice picture.”</div>
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Back in the older days of Bigfooting one could wait a pretty long time before something new came up, and those who were doing the work really had to earn their position of respect. Their claims and evidence had to be seemingly solid and at least somewhat convincing. Nowadays there are instant experts, and shoddy “evidence” presented daily. I think this thing tends to attract a lot of newbies whose lives have hit dead ends, those seeking some great new “Mystery” in their middle-lives, and those also who have some sort or other of untreated mental disorder. It’s really a sad thing to watch. People get so personally invested, when it really should be about the truth, about finding objectively real things in the world, in nature, and learning how to think and investigate. Social media has turned it into a circus.</div>
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The group, Coalition for Critical Thinking in Bigfoot Research, was formed in 2011 as a means to combat this, to confront the Woo-woos claiming unverifiable metaphysical things, but also the nuts on the “flesh and blood” side of the picture. Both sides should be accountable to factual reality, to present something that can actually be useful in learning about the real world; but, they aren’t. It’s become an anything-goes fantasy pursuit, and for me, the more I see of these claims the less I can believe them. Bigfooters have done a great job of convincing many that Bigfoot is NOT real, frankly. Bigfoot is receding into a haze of belief and faith, rather than into the clear light of real scientific and rational knowledge. The field of study, if it can be called such, has not progressed in the last two decades since the advent of the internet and the BFRO; it has gone backwards, now moving into the realm of a primitive, regressive, New Age nature religion, full of imaginary experiences and superstitions. Just like on the show, “Ancient Aliens,” people aren’t practicing science and reason. They are rejecting that. They are asserting willfully a belief system that has no real foundation whatsoever. And Facebook is there to unify their cults and cliques, at once connecting people across regions and even nations, but also giving them the closed and secret hiding places they require to cultivate their mental viruses and indoctrinate new members. These little groups are becoming the basis of a larger cult, one that is amalgamating various weird beliefs from the larger culture into itself.</div>
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It’s sad that people in the Bigfooting thing can’t just be forthright and honest, honest with themselves, and accountable to some kind of objective set of facts and the unassailable rules of logic. When charlatans can persist and prosper without questioning there will only be more snake oil and hocus pocus coming from this pursuit. To paraphrase Voltaire, If Bigfoot did not exist, we would have to invent him. (This was in fact confirmed after I wrote this by Christopher Noel, who made a desperate video addressed to Sasquatch itself, pleading for communion, where he used that very quotation.) That seems to be happening, to both sides of the camps, and it’s expressed by the endless formation now of warring Facebook groups. Not enough people are studying the history of this thing, reading the books and documents that would put all of this into context. Instead, it becomes a matter of instant gratification, where they need their dose of Bigfoot every day. Every time they go out into the woods they see sign of Bigfoot there. This thing, if it is real, cannot be so common and omnipresent. It has to be rare, uncommon, hard to find, and elusive, or we’d have them in zoos and museums by now. Bigfooting as a culture also cannot possibly be enough to fill a life with meaning, considering the seeming impossibility of even proving that it exists in the first place. So, what takes the place of any real substance is the social aspect, the bonding with fellow True Believers, or the angry trolling wars with those who differ in their beliefs or methods. Often enemies are mad over the simplest words, such as “ape,” “animal,” or “evolution.”</div>
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There are stalkers and trolls out there, either coming from the believer side, or the skeptic side, and a position of agnosticism really seems to annoy them. They get really angry when their claims of “special” encounters or extraordinary “evidence” are criticized. For instance, it’s a popular troll thing to do lately to criticize me for being on FINDING BIGFOOT on TV. This stilly trolling effort was taken up by Michael Merchant, Kelly Shaw, Jeffery Kelley, and several others whose names are of even less consequence. Seemingly these people are so jealous of Bluff Creek Project, or so intimidated by my intellectual stance on the issues, that they have to lie and slander just to try to get revenge and reassure themselves that they are great. So, I appeared on this television show where some of my friends (real life) are the stars or on the production team. I didn’t change a word or aspect of my usual behavior, and I just talked with them as I normally do with people in my shop (like you saw me doing in that film, WILLOW CREEK). But lo, the trollers think I “lied” to get on TV. And they go around the internet saying this everywhere, that I lied. Really? Do you always believe what you see on TV? That segment they showed of me was highly edited. Also, it was recorded over five years ago, and my general approach and attitude have changed much since then. I told of things exactly as they happened, never claiming it was caused by a Bigfoot. They just removed all the parts where I said, "I didn't actually see it," and "I don't know what it was," and put an image of a Bigfoot coming down the hill in their place, with funny "awestruck" clips of the cast inserted as well. I don't know if what was in my yard that night was a Bigfoot, or not. It was an odd experience, and that is really all.</div>
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They lie in the very same way about Bluff Creek Project, saying we steal money from the donations or whatever. Really? That money is for batteries and trail cameras, which remain the property of those contributing a full camera setup, if they’d like. I don’t make a penny from those donation drives, and Jamie handles all the money, which is accounted for and spent on the needed hardware. We’ve published the small amounts of money needed and that given by donors. Saying we steal it is really slander, and frankly illegal, with real damages that can be accounted for, though the real damage to the project isn’t financial but rather to objective research efforts. Such trolling is incredibly anti-intellectual and opposed to scientific pursuit of the question of Bigfoot. Real science is funded by grants and institutional allocations for the most part, and that is all we’re doing. It’s a public research project owned by the donors and available free to all, with full data transparency. Who could complain about that? Idiots, that’s who, or people who are among the biggest jerks in the world. As far as the attacks against me personally, or against my bookstore, well, that’s just low, and it should stop if these people have any dignity at all.</div>
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CRYPTOBLAST: You have been interviewed numerous times on TV, and have been seen on a Bigfoot movie. Can you tell us about it?</div>
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STEVEN STREUFERT: I don’t have much to say about all of that. It’s just a part of my ordinary life living here in the Bigfoot Mecca of the world. For whatever reason, the media from television, magazines, newspapers, and independents of all sorts constantly show up at my bookstore door. I just talk with them about the subject like I do with anyone else. What you see of me in the Bobcat Goldthwait “Willow Creek” movie is me, talking with the actor, both of us just improvising the conversation. The same thing happened when “Finding Bigfoot” came here, though those guys edited my segment to take out the skeptical parts, replacing the “I don’t know what it was” kind of statements with an image of a Bigfoot coming down the hill. It’s fun being in these things, though they will often misquote or poorly edit things, which can lead to misconceptions. They usually incorrectly spell my last name, say I was born in Boston, or that my store is in Salyer and not in Willow Creek, whatever it might be. Newspaper reporters usually take sketch notes, and then reconstruct what they thought they heard. Needless to say, this is exasperating, and costs me much time in explaining things.</div>
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TV production companies are the worst editing offenders. In one Canadian show (“Boogymen”) that was played on the Destination America channel I was shown saying, “I am the one who knows the most about Bigfoot.” The real statement, unedited, was something like, “It is likely that those curious about the topic come here to my shop because I am the one who knows the most about Bigfoot out here on the main drag in town, and I’m active on the internet and in the community of Bigfooting.” See how that alters things? One old-timer out here saw me on TV and actually got angry because she thought I was saying I was the world’s greatest Bigfoot expert. What I really meant was far from that, but one ends up having to constantly explain things to all the people who’ve seen the shows… and there are millions of them. Even worse, trolls watch these, and then try to attack one over things that were altered by media people. All I can say is, Don’t always believe what you read, or see, or hear is silly gossip.</div>
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I don’t get too impressed with any of this anymore. It was a bit nerve-wracking at first to be pushed reluctantly into these public appearances of various types when I’m really a private kind of person. But once I’d been on Coast to Coast AM live, talking before some 3.5 million people, well, I learned to get over being nervous, and to just let my thoughts roll. I’ve been on dozens of these online radio shows and podcasts, webcasts, blogs, YouTube videos, or whatever. It really doesn’t motivate me much, but yeah, it’s kind of fun. I’m more interested in basic truth and learning, you know, like facts, things I can learn about in the nerdy old books here in my shop. I’m always happy to meet people who can have good, long, rational and philosophical conversations. It’s also great to meet the old-timers, guys who worked in Bluff Creek back in the beginning of the local Bigfoot legend, the Natives who can speak of their culture, and the witnesses who claim they’ve really seen Bigfoot creatures around here. Those are the kind of visitors I most enjoy, and not the exploiters out looking for soundbytes and sensationalism. I wish that kind of stuff could get out there more, onto TV and into the other media on Bigfoot. I think that thinking about something like Bigfoot, whether or not it is real, can be a good way to consider the nature of human belief and the acquisition of knowledge. By learning how to question the concept of Bigfoot from all angles, we can learn how to question all manner of things, and learn to discern shit from Shinola, or snake oil from a real cure.</div>
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CRYPTOBLAST: You have quite a reputation as a walking encyclopedia when it comes to Sasquatch. What has been the biggest headache for you? The Woo?</div>
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STEVEN STREUFERT: Well, I have read most of the books on the topic, the decent ones anyway, and everything of quality I could find on the internet. I study everything related, too. This includes the generally related material, in Cryptozoology, Anthropology and Zoology, Mythology and Folklore, a lot of the Paranormal stuff like UFOs, Critical Theory and Philosophy, Cultural Criticism, History, World Religions, Psychology, Science in general, and the field of Skepticism in particular. You name it. As a bookseller and intellectual, I have to be eclectic and curious about everything. I tend to ignore the self-published Woo tall tale books, as I get enough of that already online, and on Facebook. At the bookstore I have to know a little bit at least about just about anything out there. It’s a habit I have, and I am endlessly curious. Those in the Woo-woo camp like to talk about skeptics (and intellectuals or scientists) being “closed-minded.” To hell with that, I say. I have read circles around all of them, and in the most wide-ranging topics. I’ve studied widely in the Parnormal stuff they believe in, but I do so critically, searching for the real answers. I respect scientists, and try to keep myself aware of the various fields of it, though I am not a practicing scientist myself.</div>
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With the Bigfoot topic I really started with local history, and worked my way outwards. As a youth I was very curious about the creature itself, but as an adult I have sought to understand the legend, as it plays out in human understanding and beliefs. Our pursuit in the Bluff Creek Film Site Project, which I founded with Ian C. and then Robert Leiterman in 2009, was more of historical facts than of the “Bigfoot” itself. We did look around trying various methods, and we do engage in field practice, but that wasn’t our primary pursuit. We’ve spent plenty of time out there camping in the most historical area of Bigfoot reports, yet we have never once seen one, or clear evidence of their existence. We didn’t just assume that Bigfoot was real, and then try to prove it. Rather, we looked for facts, for the truth, whatever it was. We still do this, with our current camera observation effort (now called simply, Bluff Creek Project), up there around the PGF site. When information and facts become a requirement, like they were for us in actually finding that film site again, and then in documenting it with our site survey, one learns to be accountable to them and to seek them out like diamonds buried in the muck of belief.</div>
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What really bothers me is not so much the Woo-woo by itself, but rather people who claim things to feed their feelings and their egos rather than to discover actual reality. I value truth and honesty over magic and sensationalism. The latter may be more “fun” or “spiritually inspiring,” but it is objective, real reality we should seek to know. One can spend one’s whole life pursuing something, but if one starts with the wrong assumptions and methods, and never questions or corrects them, then one is going to find oneself lost in the woods. I find every bit of actual knowledge and context of value, whatever the field of study. All parts of a scenario have value, so I advocate constant learning about real things, things that can be verified as real and found reliably in nature or the larger universe. I say there is only the natural world, including quarks and quasars, and there is no “supernatural” world separate from these things. Quantum physics, for instance, quite often referred to by Bigfooters of the Woo persuasion, is a set of ideas about the natural world, not an excuse for every metaphysical dream under the sun. No human being has ever gathered a single bit of real, solid evidence that there is such a thing as the supernatural. Everything we have ever discovered, known, and understood has been part of the natural world. “Paranormal” is another useless word. It only means that there are things that are not “normal” to us in our usual, ordinary lives. Well, this doesn’t mean that every banal human idea of things that seem strange and unusual is true. The universe as it is is far beyond what we can see with our senses or incorporate currently in our minds. That is reason to “keep an open mind,” but it is not an excuse just to believe anything, any whackadoodle idea someone presents as a “theory.”</div>
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What the rational person keeps an open mind about is all of the things that really can be discovered, known, and understood. The Woo method is the very opposite of this, fleeing from the difficulties of learning and the requirements of science and logic into easy answers and “feel-good” kinds of experience. Speculation and imagination have their places, but they cannot be relied upon as true guides in discovery. Learning is hard, and it requires honesty, and it will often show one things that are the opposite of what is desired. We dream of immortality, yet we are mortal biological organisms. Beliefs don’t make reality; reality exists independently of us, and indifferently to us. Much of human history has been dominated by false belief and fearful superstitions. In fact, despite the rise of modern science and civilization, the tendency to retreat into the dreamy world of the Dark Ages or the ancient past is very strong. Things have become too complex for any one person to really master it all, and this creates in many a desire for the simplicity of mere belief, a dream of magic, which is really an escape from reality rather than a discovery of it. Many seek to join belief-centered groups, which can become their own form of a cult, even in something so seemingly simple as the quest for an undocumented creature said to exist. Much of the current Bigfooting world is heading in that dreamy Woo direction. In part, Bigfooting culture was always like that, an old archetype from humanity’s earliest days, a symbol of a world we have lost to modern mankind, where a mysterious being unknown to science can roam freely, and may do whatever it likes. Many in this thing of Bigfooting secretly or subconsciously want to go back to that state, or at least to be closer to it, as they have rejected reason and objectivity and modernity for what pleases them more. I’d like to say that the easy way is not always the right way, and usually not the true one, either.</div>
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CRYPTOBLAST: We noticed that in B. Ann Slate's and Alan Berry's 1976 book "Bigfoot" the woo concept was already being explored with UFOs and energy/psychic explanations for Sasquatch. What is the origination of the woo? (and can you expand on how it has evolved into the circus it is now?)</div>
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STEVEN STREUFERT: Well, you know, the so-called “Woo” goes back to the old Native American lore, and that is the truth of it. The current fascination in the Woo camp with MindSpeak, psychic stuff, other dimensions, or whatever, is nothing new at all. All of that stuff was present in the UFO contactee movement of the 1950s, and in general occultism going way back through Spiritualism and the “Ascended Masters” of Theosophy, and far back into more ancient lines of culture. At times nowadays it is hard to tell these “paranormal” fields apart. Finding Bigfoot seems very close to ghost hunting to me. One legendary story serves as the basis for another, and no one seems these days to need there to be a solid basis to any of it.</div>
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The Slate/Berry book is one of the early ones in Bigfooting to really include the Woo stuff, but it also had the Sierra Sounds, which really are even more weird. Look into it deeply and you’ll find some really odd stuff, like in the Fred Beck book about Ape Canyon. That has all manner of weirdness, including higher dimensions, underground civilizations, and a ton of Theosophy-influenced whackadoodle thinking. The world of Bigfooting can be traced right back to H.P. Blavatsky’s ideas about a prior race of apelike and hairy yet “more spiritual” Lemurians. Every society or civilization of humans really does have its roots in the mythic and magical, as one has to consider that the ancient times of our species were spent without science, and without real rationalism, subsumed in superstition and belief. Consider the Native American or ancient European world views. They didn’t have science as we know it now, but they had to have a very practical understanding of the world around them in order to survive. Without modern tools and technologies, they simply were not able to understand or even conceive of the kinds of things we have discovered in modern times. Where their practical abilities and senses ended, belief and the religious or mythic dimensions began.</div>
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We do this, too, with the various gods most of us still follow or seek. We now have deep space telescopes and microscopes, but for the old cultures, the cosmos was a vast mystery to be explained by whatever means, whether mystical or imaginative. The mythic traditions tried to make sense of existence, but with limited means of doing so. For them, the “spirit world” was all around them, but we might just talk about galaxies and sub-atomic particles. In the state of living where the sense of spirits and the inexplicable are so close, and so pervasive, there isn’t much of a separation of the rational from the magical, or the subjective from the objective. Also, they did not have the modern concepts of Psychology, where the psyche is understood through more objective measures rather than just subjective experiences. Out of this, beings like the Sasquatch can emerge, from the liminal margins of the conscious and subconscious realms. It really is hard to tell how much of things described by the ancient or still-immersed traditional cultures were actually meant to be of the “objectively real” world. They didn’t really have the deep distinction (or schism) we have now, this separation of the subjective from the objective. Much of that is the consequence of modern Psychology and Philosophy, systems of thought which have allowed us to objectify and understand our own inner workings, rather than just being part of them.</div>
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Many great advances have been made, but surely this isn’t the only way to understand the world and ourselves. In many ways a spiritual approach is necessary, at some level, and is fully understandable. There will always be things we do not yet know or understand. We feel a need to have faith in… something, a set of beliefs that can try to make existence comprehensible or meaningful. However, I would say this is no reason to reject reason, science, and modern understanding as many do, as many increasingly seem to do these days, as the world and its knowledge grow incredibly complex. No one person can be a master of all of these disciplines. There are simply too much information and too many areas of esoteric knowledge. There is no escape back into the past, or into a magical future either. We all have to live in the present.</div>
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So, in the world of Bigfooting, what we are seeing is the failure of the flesh-and-blood or rational and “scientific” pursuit of the thing to find anything like solid proof. Ketchum and Sykes failed to find anything in the DNA studies. Decades of searching and gathering ostensible evidence have not coalesced into a solid body of knowledge. The thing recedes farther from being proven, seemingly, with each passing year. The Woo mysticism has become ascendant, offering subjective and imaginative pseudo-explanations to fill the gaps. People have despaired of reason, and have grasped into the shadowy dark for other explanations. Few seem capable of admitting that the null hypothesis is staring them right in the face. Bigfoot simply may not exist. No measure of dreaming and believing really hard in it will suddenly make it so, if it is not.</div>
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Perhaps Bigfoot does exist, but forming a religion or cult around it will not advance the cause of real, actual knowledge. That only makes of Bigfoot an article of faith, and then dogma, all based upon supposition, speculation, and worse, pure imagination. These explanations may simply be discarded, using Hitchens’ Razor, "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." The burden of proof remains upon the claimants of extraordinary things. As Carl Sagan said, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” That, of course, does not give one a license to just make up whatever shite one wants to believe and call it evidence, now, does it? A delusional man like Matthew Johnson could then simply say “I don’t lie, I don’t hoax, so what I say happened did happen.” No, it didn’t, not if he can’t demonstrate that his subjective “experiences,” dreams, hallucinations, and odd beliefs have some kind of objective correlative. Convincing a few gullible cult followers does not constitute confirmation, either.</div>
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CRYPTOBLAST: You are part of the Bluff Creek Project where multiple trail cams are hidden all over the Bluff Creek valley where Roger Patterson filmed the alleged bigfoot in 1967. How did that come to be and what has been some of your results? We heard you captured on camera a once thought extinct marsupial.</div>
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STEVEN STREUFERT: Let include here parts of something I wrote today for the ISF (International Skeptical Forum) guys. I’ll adapt it some to answer your question. Really, to explain Bluff Creek Project a whole long story should be told. I’ll get to your question about the Humboldt marten at the end of all of this. What follows is partly about me, and the founding of the Bluff Creek Film Site Project, and its eventual evolution into the Bluff Creek Project camera study effort.</div>
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The question raised was about a blog post I had written six and a half years ago. In it I had said, “Perhaps the most convincing thing to me that tends to prove Bigfoot exists is hearing Bob Gimlin, a guy who obviously would not lie to you, say that he saw what he saw on that sandbar back on October 20th, 1967.” Back then, I was indeed more of a "believer" in the possibility of Bigfoot being an actual creature than I am now. I never fully "believed," I suppose, as I really do not believe in "belief." My attitude is generally one of agnosticism, of curious skepticism, using critical thinking. At first I was pretty impressed with all of the witnesses, and the arguments made by smart guys like Krantz and Meldrum, and by the apparently smart ones among the current "researchers" of Bigfoot. With time, as I was exposed to the community of believers, as I studied and then restudied the claims, the credibility of much of it began to wear thinly. I began to see the sacred cows die, the old icons fall. I began to see that much of the Bluff Creek history did have to do with hoaxing; perhaps not all of it, but a good part of it certainly was the product of humorous human fakery.</div>
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How did this happen? We decided in 2009 to investigate the history of the thing, with focus on Bluff Creek and the finding again of the apparently “lost” P-G film site. Over the course of that investigation we learned many things. Once we were reasonably assured in our own minds that we had indeed found matches for the original trees, stumps, and old log piles from the big 1964 flood, we determined to map the whole site using a grid map. We chose the point that Gimlin had identified (privately, to Bobo Fay) as the approximate spot where he thought they had first seen the subject, and with a compass we drew a line directly north. Along the way we marked ten foot segments. From the center we drew the line east and west, planting flags at each grid corner. Then we covered the entire site on foot, drawing in everything we found that was obviously old, removing from our mapping any trees and objects that were obviously too young to have been there in 1967/8 or 1971/2 when images of the site were shot. We checked the entire mapping which was on graph paper, and then Robert Leiterman drew the final first version map which we’ve published.</div>
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We compared this map with the aerial photo from Rene Dahinden and found so many matches it was clearly beyond coincidence, and this had to be the site. Fortuitously, we met an independent geologist, and he did the trigonometry to compare the two images, correcting for viewing angles. The match was perfect with a very small margin of error. The next year we brought Bill Munns (and many others) up there. He confirmed it was the site using his own methods, and did analyses based on the film itself and the best early site photos. There is no doubt that it's the site, and our map is accurate within mere inches, though not quite good enough for exact photogrammetry (according to Munns). We found in fact that our measurements were better than those done by John Green and Dahinden, back in the day. We had managed to prove *something* within the world of Bigfooting, if not the existence of the Bigfoot species itself. It was our hope that the pursuit of this knowledge in an objective way might help to demonstrate objective rationalism to others pursuing various forms of research in Bigfooting, as some kind of positive example.</div>
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Proving Bigfoot to exist is a whole different matter, and seemingly impossible. Since early 2010 when I wrote that blog entry I've had to re-evaluate all of the claims and the claimed evidence, usually dispelling the myths and poor logic that had been associated with them by the avid believers. We were trying to find the film site, and to find whatever the accurate history of Bluff Creek may have been, but much of what was claimed did not really hold any water. Instead of anything like real history in this field, we found instead oral tales, things passed down from supposed “expert” to the next supposed expert, with little initial foundation. In many cases, the sacred cows of Bigfooting fell apart upon close examination, including events like the 1967 Onion and Blue Creek Mountain track finds. Other things remained as questions to an agnostic inquiry, but a well-informed one. This is called... learning. There was indeed much hoaxing going on up in Bluff Creek. I met and interviewed some of the old-timers who were in on it, or were privy to the plans, who recalled holding the wooded foot track stompers. Some of this is obvious, like the Wallace tracks. Some of it, like the PGF, is a bit more ambiguous, and not so easily dismissed.</div>
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I do not claim that the film is of a real creature. Nor do I declare it false. My position is agnostic, and I think the film is ambiguous and anomalous. It certainly remains intriguing, and has not been finally debunked by anyone, despite all the claims. That doesn't mean I am trying to make it be real despite all the weight against the possibility of Bigfoot actually existing. If Bigfoot isn't real, so be it. I am interested in discovering the truth. This film is a continuing mystery, sitting in the middle of the debates like a big, unanswerable question mark.</div>
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I do find Gimlin to be a congenial and honest type of fellow, a seemingly very convincing witness; but that does not mean that I AM convinced. It doesn't seem to me that he is lying when I hear him talk, or when I have spoken with him. But, that is not proof that the film is of a real creature known as Bigfoot. Perhaps he was in on a hoax, or was the one first fooled by one? Even he has admitted this possibility. I said that about Gimlin to indicate one of the real puzzles of the whole PGF controversy, and one that applies to all of Bigfooting witness accounts: How can seemingly honest and sane, ordinary people think they have seen this creature, if it does not exist? If it does not exist, why are they claiming to have seen it? Why would they lie about it, especially as all they usually get for the claim is a real misery of questioning? Is it all hoaxing or delusion, or mistakes of perception? Perhaps it is. Perhaps it is not. This is the aspect of the "phenomenon" that I find most fascinating.</div>
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Why? Because to me at this point it seems that it is most likely that Bigfoot does NOT exist. The evidence is poor, and has not passed scientific scrutiny in any way. The claims of researchers to this day are highly questionable, and with the internet we are exposed to more and even more outrageous stupidities every single day. I am talking about all the blobsquatches, and the outrageous claims of habituation (without evidence that should be easy to obtain under the claimed circumstances), and metaphysical superpowers, and the presumptuous claims of stick structures, linguistic “glyphs,” and very poor track finds, or DNA claims that never pan out under real scientific scrutiny. After all this time, it seems increasingly likely that some kind of urban legend is at play, rather than an elusive species of primate, spirit being, or extraterrestrial entity. In 2010 I was among friends in the Bigfooting community, and that in part swayed me a little toward the believing side, but by the end of that year I'd hit a wall of serious questions that could not be denied. I saw how the "community" was indeed in denial of these questions, and... I started asking them. It’s a funny thing, but the JREF-ISF scoftics assume me to be some kind of "Gimlin Guard" believer, but within the community of Bigfooter believers I have been known as a notorious skeptic since 2011. Some of them even call me "Evil." Ha ha. Well, I’d argue, there is nothing wrong with critical questioning, and certainly nothing wrong with an agnostic attitude toward things that are not absolutely established as facts.</div>
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You might see me at times question what I call the "hoax theories," such as the poor Bluff Creek geography of Bob Heironimus. I do this because I apply the same kind of skepticism to his claims as I do to those of the believers. I'm not biasing my thought or our investigation to favor the film or its supporters. I am questioning ALL of it. It's just a fact that much of what Bob Gimlin has said over the years has proven to be true, on the ground, as we spent time in Bluff Creek analyzing all of it. Much of what I find in Greg Long's book, THE MAKING OF BIGFOOT, and in the Bob Heironimus statements does not prove to be congruent with facts on the ground up there. So, I do acknowledge that Bob H. was somehow involved, such as with his horse being there with P & G, or in the earlier Yakima “docudrama” footage; but I don't see anything really convincing to me that he was really there in Bluff Creek. In our studies we had to throw out many of the statements made about the PGF site by Peter Byrne, MK Davis, Christopher Murphy, Daniel Perez, et al. Many did not seem to have a good enough memory to get us to the actual site, including John Green, Al Hodgson, and the USFS. By rejecting them all, throwing away the false and insufficient, we eventually found that Rene Dahinden had indeed marked the map correctly, and Bob Gimlin had a good enough recollection after all tentatively to identify it in 2003 and 2011. He was right on the spot, within about 20 feet or so, even though the ground itself in that spot had been washed away by the erosion in the creekbed. So, really, I apply the same kinds of scrutiny to Bob Heironimus or whatever other claim. It's a fact that Heironimus' description of the route in to the film site comes nowhere near the actual site, and sounds nothing at all like the real trip there. His statements are full of self-contradictions, and therefore are all questionable.</div>
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Since we found and documented the site in 2011, proving it beyond dispute to be the site, we moved on to another kind of investigation. We always wondered how it could be that we spent more time than anyone else up in Bluff Creek, and yet never saw any sign of Bigfoot. Others claimed "action" all the time, but we only found bear tracks, heard owls or pine cones falling, and saw deer in the thermals and night vision devices. We decided to test the hypothesis, with our geologist friend Jamie Wayne S. joining the team, asking "Does Bigfoot Exist?" We started deploying an array of trail cameras that monitored the PGF site, the area around it on the hillsides and up and down the creekbed, and around adjacent lakes in the Bluff Creek basin. These cameras ran 24-7, 365 days a year, and are still doing so, up to 20 of them at a time. We implemented them strategically, such that they observed each other, or viewed the same basic areas from different angles. After five full years coming up soon, with no sign of Bigfoot yet (though lots of other great, real wildlife), we are all recognizing that the null hypothesis seems the most likely conclusion. Of course, one can make all kinds of excuses and special pleading, such as that Bigfoot avoid trail cameras, or can know about them psychically, or whatever magical sensibility; but we don't do that. We are a skeptical and rational group of investigators. What we're doing is amateur science, I think, a valid form of observation and investigation of a real question that could use some answering. It’s just a fact that it would be really inconvenient for any creature living in that area to avoid our cameras, placed as they are in the prime areas for food, water, and shelter, along the best travel routes. Climbing up a steep, rocky slope every day just to go around a camera is a violation of biological economy, and besides, how would then know what a camera is there to do? We get images and video of all the other animals known to live up there, but why no Bigfoot? It’s a good question.</div>
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The Humboldt marten is one of the many interesting real animals that we have documented up there in Bluff Creek with our trail cameras. It was once thought to be extinct, but not too long ago, in 1996, a photo of one was captured, proving that they were actually still alive. It was not quite as shocking as the rediscovery of the coelacanth, but it was indeed significant. This is a distinct subspecies of marten, the coastal marten, and from the distinct and very small California subgroup. There are small numbers of them as well in Southern Oregon.</div>
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There is a lawsuit now being waged to protect this subspecies.</div>
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U.S. Fish and Wildlife Sued over Humboldt Marten Status:</div>
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<a href="http://www.times-standard.com/article/NJ/20151216/NEWS/151219880">http://www.times-standard.com/article/NJ/20151216/NEWS/151219880</a></div>
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Don’t listen to certain jealous fools in the Bigfooting community about this, as they ARE endangered. A politically-motivated decision not to list them was made by the federal government, but that is being challenged by a lawsuit that is certain to win. The government went against their own scientists to do this. There are only an estimated 100 individuals left in California, and if that isn’t endangered I don’t know what is. This is not the common pine marten. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of biology knows of the importance of regional subspecies, and the need for their protection. Michael Merchant and Kelly Shaw, or Brent Dill, have no clue what they are talking about, or else they are just simply liars, out babbling about this because they are jealous of the attention that Bluff Creek Project gets. Our work is objective, and not based upon egotism, nor is it all done for YouTube hits and cash like these other fellows do. Our photos of the marten were accidental at first, so there really is no issue of ego in this thing. Now we train our cameras to capture more images and video of them, and our work has shown that they are prospering in small numbers in this small area of Bluff Creek. These images give hope to all concerned with the work of preserving this wonderful subspecies from extinction. We’ve been recognized by advocacy groups and scientists, so there is no question that we are on the right track with this.</div>
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The USFS knows about what we've been doing, and approves. In fact, we took them and some of their scientists up there and showed them the P-G film site, where most of our cameras are deployed, because even they didn't know where the site really was. They were all convinced by the work we'd done and agreed that we'd found the site. They like the fact that our trail cameras are out there helping to document the wildlife that live within the area of their managerial jurisdiction. They don't mind that we have removed dead branches and stuff to make the site more accessible for our studies. In fact, they want us to make an informally-marked trail with an explanatory message board there, so that all of those going in there don't just get lost or endanger themselves in a rather rugged environment. We are happy to be learning about one of our favorite places on Earth, whether or not there ever was a Bigfoot, or if there is a Bigfoot up in there still.</div>
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CRYPTOBLAST: A common question your critics say is, if Bigfoot is real, how come you guys haven't caught one by one of your many, many trail cams?</div>
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STEVEN STREUFERT: Maybe Bigfoot ISN’T real, eh? I’ve answered much of this question above already. One has to consider the null hypothesis. We keep testing the hypothesis of “Bigfoot Exists,” but after decades it’s not looking good. Five years of camera study should have shown at least one sign of this creature, if it is real, utilizing the most prime area of the local habitat, which it would need for food, water, and easy transit through those steep canyons. Either that, or it’s moved off into more deep and remote areas, where people rarely go.</div>
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I continue onward as an agnostic about the thing, though I’ve definitely become more and more skeptical with the years. One *has* to be skeptical, or one is lost. Skepticism should be a curious inquiry, looking into things, especially all the mysterious claims out there; but it cannot believe without good evidence. Why should anyone do so? If you really think you have seen a Bigfoot, that’s great! If you think you may have “encountered” one, be careful not to assume things without considering all of the common options. Don’t trick yourself just because you want this thing to be real so badly. I always advise that people be willing to live with mysterious things, without putting banal human solutions onto complex realities and questions, and without leaping into the paranormal and metaphysical to explain things. A claim of a mystery cannot be explained by yet another, deeper mystery. That is an infinite regress into mystification, without a single possible answer coming from it. Everything else that we’ve ever known and proven has been within the natural world, and not magical just because it at first seemed strange. Go forth and see that the world we already know is infinitely complex and wondrous. Look into the eyes of a dragonfly and answer me, Do we really need extraterrestrials, the Illuminati, and Bigfoot walking through interdimensional portals?</div>
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For me it's a fascinating piece of local history in my area, and I'd like to see some kind of resolution to it all. I'm sitting here in the Bigfoot Mecca, and also ensconced in my own way within the "Bigfoot Community," and the lunacy of it all never ceases to amaze me. I've been living here in Willow Creek since 2001 (and in Humboldt since 1993), and never once have I seen anything that would convince me absolutely that the thing is a real creature. Yet, all the time I hear about "encounters" and "sightings," either here locally or (mostly) through the online venues. Of course people lie, sometimes to others, and often to themselves. There are both con men and fools involved. Both are fun to identify and debunk. It's great practice in applying the tools of skepticism and logic, and for learning about the scientific method. However, I do think there is another category, that of the person who is honest and sane, and yet still feels and thinks deeply that they have indeed seen or “encountered” Bigfoot. Often, they have no motivation to think this, nothing to gain, and nothing to prove. Some of them are rather convincing, and it's hard to know what to say to them as they tell me of their experiences here in my bookshop. They aren't apparent liars, or delusional believers. Maybe they are mistaken in their interpretations, but really, they DO believe it. What are we to make of this?</div>
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I'm curious as to why some appear so sincerely to believe they have encountered or seen a Bigfoot. There are many types of claimed witnesses. Some obviously have tongue in cheek, and there's usually a punch line at the end like, "It was my big, hairy uncle Joe who made that stench." Some just don't seem credible, either because their claims are outrageous, or they seem delusional, or they don't seem trustworthy. The other sort are really just ordinary people saying they saw or experienced something odd and anomalous. They don't seem to be exaggerating, and the details are there and quite normal or prosaic, and they are usually people who have nothing to gain and perhaps much to lose (I know, you've heard this one before) by telling such a story. Everyone's motives are different, as are their perceptions.</div>
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Perhaps they were wrong about seeing a Bigfoot. Perhaps they are not fools, crazy or disingenuous, and really believe it. Often the claimed experience is life-alerting or at least disturbing, shocking, or surprising to them, or so they act. This is, anyway, how they seem, and I've spoken with dozens and dozens, more like hundreds, of such people. I'll always take everything that people say with a large amount of grains of salt, but I'm also not so inclined to call *everyone* a liar or an idiot. Witness claimants should not just be dismissed with a scoffing sneer, in my opinion. Their claims can and should be considered as at least somewhat possible. If you can’t trust anyone to tell the truth at least as they see it about supposed Bigfoot sighting, whom do you trust in life? There has to be some kind of human social accountability, surely, and I just can’t call *all* of them liars, or all of them fools. Perhaps some of them are right and their tales are true, after all? It’s a big question that still remains.</div>
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I maintain an interest in the history of it here locally, and as a general cultural element. I try to keep up the agnostic viewpoint mainly to allow people to tell their experiences, and to ponder what it could be that is causing these people to think they've run across a Bigfoot. To me, that is the real mystery now. However, we do keep on looking up in Bluff Creek, on foot, by truck, with drones, with our five senses, and with our trail cameras. Heck, maybe Bigfoot is out there somewhere hiding, after all, but these days I kind of doubt it.</div>
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I would like for Bigfoot to exist. I would "like" to believe in such things that are unconfirmed in objective reality. But, I do not believe in belief. I keep my mind open, in an agnostic and skeptical way, to the possibilities. I don't rule it out absolutely, as logically that is technically impossible. “You can’t really prove a negative,” they say. There may be something to it all, all the claims of claimed actual witnesses, beyond the silly ambiguous "encounter" assumption and stories. I've had some of those latter kinds of experiences myself, but they do not add up to certainty. Even if I saw one in front of me with my own eyes, I'd have to question the entire experience, so long as they are not objectively confirmed and verified for all human beings with actual science. It is conceivable that I could think I've seen one, due to some strange glitch of the mind and circumstances, such as we are ALL subject to having. Perception and interpretation of experience are never absolutely accurate. Do I *think* that Bigfoot exists? Well, right now, I have to say that, weighing all the supposed evidence and the history of this field of study, it is unlikely that they do. I’d be happy to be proven wrong in that tentative assumption.</div>
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Thanks for doing this interview.</div>
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Anyone who wants to see the kind of skeptical application I do within Bigfooting in general is welcome to come over and join our Facebook discussion group, which tries to apply skeptical methodology to the various crazy claims. Coalition for Critical Thinking in Bigfoot Research,</div>
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/smartbigfoot/</div>
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My blog addresses are, for BIGFOOT’S bLOG,</div>
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<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/</a></div>
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and for The Bigfoot News and Review,</div>
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<a href="http://thebigfootnews.blogspot.com/">http://thebigfootnews.blogspot.com/</a></div>
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Bluff Creek Project can be found here:</div>
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<a href="http://bluffcreekproject.blogspot.com/">http://bluffcreekproject.blogspot.com/</a></div>
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*</div>
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THANKS TO THE CRYPTOBLAST BLOG FOR DOING THIS INTERVIEW...</div>
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<a href="http://thecryptoblast.blogspot.com/">http://thecryptoblast.blogspot.com/</a></div>
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On YouTube they may be found here:</div>
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<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX4Tta3zRnZ3T8vDvfcKVhg">https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX4Tta3zRnZ3T8vDvfcKVhg</a></div>
<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-38328797996248322702016-11-06T16:15:00.002-08:002016-11-06T16:15:17.371-08:00Steve Watson Interviews Steven Streufert at Bigfoot Books, Willow Creek ... "It Could Be Real"<b><span style="color: #990000;">BIGFOOT'S BLOG, November 6th 2016</span></b><br /><br />A while back, an old friend of mine from Santa Barbara, Steve Watson, visited the bookshop, and we sat down for a video interview. I think you might like giving these seventeen minutes a viewing and listen.<br /><br /><a href="https://youtu.be/AFYXM90fdIg">https://youtu.be/AFYXM90fdIg</a><div>
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"This is my documentary about Steve Streufert, Bigfoot researcher scientist, good american and founder of the Coalition for 'Reason, Science, Sanity in Bigfoot Research."</div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-41297127026298566062016-09-10T19:21:00.003-07:002016-09-10T21:35:40.097-07:00Bigfoot Days 2016, Willow Creek<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dhW0J1qGfo8/V9S3g4Hnl4I/AAAAAAAAFsY/8U5AYNZTeNIdNLkbZEmIdAFjH6VFXLtNQCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B1.jpg" imageanchor="1"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dhW0J1qGfo8/V9S3g4Hnl4I/AAAAAAAAFsY/8U5AYNZTeNIdNLkbZEmIdAFjH6VFXLtNQCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B1.jpg" width="640" /></a><span style="color: #990000;"><b>BIGFOOT'S BLOG</b></span><br />
<span style="color: #990000;"><b>Special Post for BIGFOOT DAYS, September 2016</b></span><br />
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Since 1960 this fun community festival has been held on Labor Day weekend in Willow Creek, California, the "Bigfoot Capitol of the World," as they say, or "The Gateway to Bigfoot Country." This is its 56th annual sighting. It's normally just a small-town celebration, with a little Bigfoot content, but this year it was literally infested with Bigfoot. There were many different Bigfoot in this parade, by far more than most years; and this was the year that many felt could be the ultimate decline of the celebration. Instead of giving in to the CalTrans decision not to close the main road which is Highway 299 for the parade, the community rallied back, and came out with not only more Bigfoot, but a real crowd of fire trucks, tanks and military vehicles, Forest Service representatives (including Smokey the Bear), a veteran's color guard and some horses.<br />
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">All photos here, by and copyright, Steven Streufert<br />
CLICK IMAGES TO ENLARGE.</td></tr>
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Blue Lake Casino brought Star Wars into the picture this year.</td></tr>
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Coast Central got festive with an oddball Bigfoot.</td></tr>
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">YODA!</td></tr>
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">River boat racers representing.</td></tr>
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<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QCvCbFH1Kko/V9S4-DIepVI/AAAAAAAAFt0/JwEtsvtYLGQgJxkxq8AXKPR39nSbf_HRgCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B10.jpg" imageanchor="1"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QCvCbFH1Kko/V9S4-DIepVI/AAAAAAAAFt0/JwEtsvtYLGQgJxkxq8AXKPR39nSbf_HRgCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B10.jpg" width="640" /></a><br />
<br />
<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uB6O1Z9pPeY/V9S5F0j4eII/AAAAAAAAFt8/ttXuOApOX2Yn-7W3GpA1GlQKtFy4vjxhQCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B11.jpg" imageanchor="1"><img border="0" height="472" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uB6O1Z9pPeY/V9S5F0j4eII/AAAAAAAAFt8/ttXuOApOX2Yn-7W3GpA1GlQKtFy4vjxhQCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B11.jpg" width="640" /></a><br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WeBD5zrq1W8/V9S5U8CEQbI/AAAAAAAAFuE/b1eIedqO9YUk9UhIOjoklzPYpfxRkUk2gCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B12.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WeBD5zrq1W8/V9S5U8CEQbI/AAAAAAAAFuE/b1eIedqO9YUk9UhIOjoklzPYpfxRkUk2gCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B12.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Ace Hardware brought along their statue and a costume...</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NYl2pbuJcwE/V9S5kkqD_2I/AAAAAAAAFuQ/L9FanNtG4bsPzw6pnOWkMDdeKhMyHxybACK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B13.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NYl2pbuJcwE/V9S5kkqD_2I/AAAAAAAAFuQ/L9FanNtG4bsPzw6pnOWkMDdeKhMyHxybACK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B13.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">...and some kind of frisbee game.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FsM8P-5BBh4/V9S5tUyFx7I/AAAAAAAAFuY/6v589sX5JLsJtc0fvDaE9mJ5tK9fl8qsQCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B14.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FsM8P-5BBh4/V9S5tUyFx7I/AAAAAAAAFuY/6v589sX5JLsJtc0fvDaE9mJ5tK9fl8qsQCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B14.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Bigfoot clowning around.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1lsKxnxzzmA/V9S564aHgNI/AAAAAAAAFug/WnM9RFIYluM_D95DwRNPKemU3E1hEucSwCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B15.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1lsKxnxzzmA/V9S564aHgNI/AAAAAAAAFug/WnM9RFIYluM_D95DwRNPKemU3E1hEucSwCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B15.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Six Rivers Medical Clinic</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gNEwLryouws/V9S6H4ucg-I/AAAAAAAAFuo/mlru267Q4lI5e-TreiCkjpSrBf0_AzZxACK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B16.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gNEwLryouws/V9S6H4ucg-I/AAAAAAAAFuo/mlru267Q4lI5e-TreiCkjpSrBf0_AzZxACK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B16.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A pizza-making Bigfoot?</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-75lcVO_Yro0/V9S6QUFypbI/AAAAAAAAFuw/1oXIKwpAz1sVoozulAhUEFRfiNMssrQuACK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B17.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-75lcVO_Yro0/V9S6QUFypbI/AAAAAAAAFuw/1oXIKwpAz1sVoozulAhUEFRfiNMssrQuACK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B17.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Native Princess.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MJZDqCMuZRg/V9S6fuskBCI/AAAAAAAAFu4/AuJuns8fGrwMp_DkHubGvk3a1BBCaBYaQCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B18.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MJZDqCMuZRg/V9S6fuskBCI/AAAAAAAAFu4/AuJuns8fGrwMp_DkHubGvk3a1BBCaBYaQCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B18.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">I didn't catch who Camp Bigfoot are, but they had a cool Squatchmobile.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RbKwQ9iX9Js/V9S60WltyWI/AAAAAAAAFvA/eI6Ez6Jg-IQ6kgbqtinc3ET0zstET2PiQCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B19.jpg" imageanchor="1"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RbKwQ9iX9Js/V9S60WltyWI/AAAAAAAAFvA/eI6Ez6Jg-IQ6kgbqtinc3ET0zstET2PiQCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B19.jpg" width="640" /></a><br />
<br />
<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w_PNGWPoQfY/V9S66M__nII/AAAAAAAAFvM/5qWQXbZKqEIbjbHOVtQGz8QaaZTqhBqTACK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B20.jpg" imageanchor="1"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w_PNGWPoQfY/V9S66M__nII/AAAAAAAAFvM/5qWQXbZKqEIbjbHOVtQGz8QaaZTqhBqTACK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B20.jpg" width="640" /></a><br />
<br />
<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pCL2Ef9oFN0/V9S7BB55PtI/AAAAAAAAFvU/-mLZWSlCBScPoH5-f9MFksGDGTKGirVBwCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B21.jpg" imageanchor="1"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pCL2Ef9oFN0/V9S7BB55PtI/AAAAAAAAFvU/-mLZWSlCBScPoH5-f9MFksGDGTKGirVBwCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B21.jpg" width="640" /></a><br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Je4tOBsRaMc/V9S7IIStwNI/AAAAAAAAFvc/4cgbdgwOow8cO-TAJibW92ITee5QoxalQCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B22.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Je4tOBsRaMc/V9S7IIStwNI/AAAAAAAAFvc/4cgbdgwOow8cO-TAJibW92ITee5QoxalQCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B22.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Smokey always shows up with his USFS friends.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VTA6LhGzLoc/V9S7PumWjpI/AAAAAAAAFvk/ZEeJFZTwYj80e6MKIZ0AfWSKJX2qLkDSQCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B23.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VTA6LhGzLoc/V9S7PumWjpI/AAAAAAAAFvk/ZEeJFZTwYj80e6MKIZ0AfWSKJX2qLkDSQCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B23.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The tail end of the parade.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-znvvtq2EW0A/V9S7kWlqgaI/AAAAAAAAFvs/7dtCGRQ5UaMPWBg9cO-pMeH2Lp5F9VpgwCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B24.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-znvvtq2EW0A/V9S7kWlqgaI/AAAAAAAAFvs/7dtCGRQ5UaMPWBg9cO-pMeH2Lp5F9VpgwCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B24.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Someone around here is building an army, I think.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eG2QFRUfBrs/V9S7qpwOABI/AAAAAAAAFv0/NH8qOnQksYsi9JPaQFObXlhHTAKt8eVagCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B25.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eG2QFRUfBrs/V9S7qpwOABI/AAAAAAAAFv0/NH8qOnQksYsi9JPaQFObXlhHTAKt8eVagCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B25.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Firefighters showed up from many towns about the area.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
The festival after the parade was held in Veteran's Park this year, which is always good (when no fire crews have to occupy it).<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CaUByrO2nt4/V9S8IMvJkJI/AAAAAAAAFv8/Bdt0HhjxhGsXupOSNaBpNLo5IK4Fb_BXwCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B27.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CaUByrO2nt4/V9S8IMvJkJI/AAAAAAAAFv8/Bdt0HhjxhGsXupOSNaBpNLo5IK4Fb_BXwCK4B/s640/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B27.jpg" width="352" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">I didn't see too many trying to kiss this dude.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T1YEvXs6PyU/V9TeldF70gI/AAAAAAAAFwk/e_xeP3JwnYkvz5VOoMBKpORbYOUmEKAHwCLcB/s1600/Bigfoot%2BDays%2B2016%2BSchedule.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T1YEvXs6PyU/V9TeldF70gI/AAAAAAAAFwk/e_xeP3JwnYkvz5VOoMBKpORbYOUmEKAHwCLcB/s640/Bigfoot%2BDays%2B2016%2BSchedule.jpg" width="480" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Here's the schedule of grand events for the day.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ORTanxUxfzE/V9S8PLiv4DI/AAAAAAAAFwE/vJ0cedeMfZQkmuvMkvLxGcIm-N1ZqR3TQCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B28.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="225" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ORTanxUxfzE/V9S8PLiv4DI/AAAAAAAAFwE/vJ0cedeMfZQkmuvMkvLxGcIm-N1ZqR3TQCK4B/s400/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B28.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Yours truly, with one daughter...</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
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<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6pCtTv1C1K8/V9S8jcdmZSI/AAAAAAAAFwM/i3b9sBQ8vDM4KKMvY31kM3NhOVPVop3oQCK4B/s1600/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B29.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="400" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6pCtTv1C1K8/V9S8jcdmZSI/AAAAAAAAFwM/i3b9sBQ8vDM4KKMvY31kM3NhOVPVop3oQCK4B/s400/BF%2BDays%2B2016%2B29.jpg" width="220" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">...and with the other daugthter.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
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There are many other years of the BIGFOOT DAYS festival covered here on this blog. Just look around, browse the links at left, or use this link...<br />
<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/search?q=bigfoot+days">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/search?q=bigfoot+days</a><br />
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Here is some information that was posted prior to the event. You could always use much of it to make plans for a trip at the end of summer next year.<br />
<a href="http://www.seecalifornia.com/festivals/big-foot-days-festival.html">http://www.seecalifornia.com/festivals/big-foot-days-festival.html</a><br />
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<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Sxy6c8ZX994/V9S9OCET-iI/AAAAAAAAFwU/U2NFmsZtfqIJTDNthuGo7QKFk3-PgooOACLcB/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT%2BBigger.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Sxy6c8ZX994/V9S9OCET-iI/AAAAAAAAFwU/U2NFmsZtfqIJTDNthuGo7QKFk3-PgooOACLcB/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT%2BBigger.jpg" /></a></div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-34503948823075370992015-09-21T14:13:00.002-07:002015-09-21T14:13:41.856-07:00BLUFF CREEK NOW OPEN AGAIN. Nickowitz Fire Still Burning, but Now Mostly Contained.<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--3Df0iFkOmk/VgBtBH0OPjI/AAAAAAAAFqw/0HfbDDUatfA/s1600/NICKOWITZ%2BFIRE%2BSept%2B21.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--3Df0iFkOmk/VgBtBH0OPjI/AAAAAAAAFqw/0HfbDDUatfA/s640/NICKOWITZ%2BFIRE%2BSept%2B21.jpg" width="491" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">CLICK IMAGE TO ENLARGE</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
NEWS FLASH:<br />
BLUFF CREEK NOW OPEN AGAIN!<br /><br />
Just in time to be open for a couple of weeks or so before the seasonal Fall closure (technically set for October 1st, if it starts raining), Bluff Creek is open again. The Nickowitz Fire has moved west and north, and is mostly contained. At one point it came to about half a mile from the PGF site, and easily could have burned through the creek basin had the winds changed and blown it down from Lonesome Ridge (see image below). Here are the current orders for closure around Blue Creek, Nickowitz Peak, the upper G-O Road, Onion Lake area, and the edges of the Siskiyou Willderness. Bluff Creek via 12N10 is apparently impossible, but access can be had through the lower G-O Road, Slate Creek Road, or Cedar Camp Road. It appears that Fish Lake/Onion Mountain ("Bluff Creek Road") is closed at the top, before Onion Lake and Onion Mountain. So, access to the PGF site and Louse Camp is only possible from the northern/eastern side.<br />
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Merv George, head of Six Rivers National Forest, and friend of Bluff Creek Project, signed the new orders a few days ago. Click the images to enlarge and read them.<br />
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<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Qk151_lrkbo/VgBtwv80f8I/AAAAAAAAFq4/GtiaE7ybql8/s1600/NICKOWITZ%2BFIRE%2BSept%2B17%2BClosure%2B1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Qk151_lrkbo/VgBtwv80f8I/AAAAAAAAFq4/GtiaE7ybql8/s640/NICKOWITZ%2BFIRE%2BSept%2B17%2BClosure%2B1.jpg" width="506" /></a></div>
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<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vaauz-T8IVU/VgBt77FaPHI/AAAAAAAAFrA/kiHV-Oe18HA/s1600/NICKOWITZ%2BFIRE%2BSept%2B17%2BClosure%2B2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vaauz-T8IVU/VgBt77FaPHI/AAAAAAAAFrA/kiHV-Oe18HA/s640/NICKOWITZ%2BFIRE%2BSept%2B17%2BClosure%2B2.jpg" width="506" /></a></div>
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This image shows just how close the fire burned to the Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot film site, indicated by rule and red dot at right.<br /><br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nk5BbZvyrRw/VgByQ3MhasI/AAAAAAAAFrM/NxxxcfqYox8/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BProximity%2Bto%2BPGF%2BSite.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="328" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nk5BbZvyrRw/VgByQ3MhasI/AAAAAAAAFrM/NxxxcfqYox8/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BProximity%2Bto%2BPGF%2BSite.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Nickowitz Fire Line, in mid-August, near BLuff Creek.<br />Click Image to Enlarge.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4akY7YKzzFo/VgBy1PH4TFI/AAAAAAAAFrU/kxuJyYQGtXM/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4akY7YKzzFo/VgBy1PH4TFI/AAAAAAAAFrU/kxuJyYQGtXM/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT.gif" /></a>GET UPDATES ON THE FIRE DAILY HERE:<br />http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4466/<br /><br />
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-69998244073394883272015-09-11T14:29:00.003-07:002015-09-11T14:29:44.574-07:00Nickowitz Fire Still Burning above Bluff Creek and Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot Film Site<b><span style="color: #990000;">NEWS FLASH:<br /></span></b><br />
Burning since lightning struck on August 1st, the <b><a href="http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4466/">Nickowitz Fire</a></b> is still active right above the historic Bluff Creek Bigfoot area. It burned within only a <b>half a mile</b> of the <b>Patterson-Gimlin Film Site</b>, as you may see in the following graphic. This was the closest the fire burned, in mid-late August.<br />
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ebU57OOKm3o/VfM98-qChEI/AAAAAAAAGzY/LKV2W5ra3Sc/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BProximity%2Bto%2BPGF%2BSite.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="328" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ebU57OOKm3o/VfM98-qChEI/AAAAAAAAGzY/LKV2W5ra3Sc/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BProximity%2Bto%2BPGF%2BSite.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="font-size: 12.8px;">CLICK TO ENLARGE IMAGES</td></tr>
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Currently the fire has been largely contained, but is still active in hot, dry conditions, with occasional winds coming off the coast to the inland. It will likely burn until the first heavy rains of fall. Here is the current official ops map for Sept. 11th. The PGF site is a small red dot to the right.<br />
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<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hqwyiEjO4SY/VfM-g1qBq5I/AAAAAAAAGzg/me_XSHVYGSs/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BMap%2BSept%2B11.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="454" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hqwyiEjO4SY/VfM-g1qBq5I/AAAAAAAAGzg/me_XSHVYGSs/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BMap%2BSept%2B11.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
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Bluff Creek itself remains closed, with heavy penalties if you go up there (so don't). The roads away from the fire and the creek basin, The G-O Road to 12N12, Slate Creek, and Cedar Camp are still open, as is the Fish Lake/Onion Mountain (Bluff Creek) Road up almost to Onion Lake (which latter is in the closure zone).</div>
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Here is the map detailing the road/area closures that are still in effect indefinitely.</div>
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<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QOfDjJGctM8/VfNAf4EDMJI/AAAAAAAAGzs/nqnFI89ECcY/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BClosure%2BMap.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QOfDjJGctM8/VfNAf4EDMJI/AAAAAAAAGzs/nqnFI89ECcY/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BClosure%2BMap.jpg" width="527" /></a></div>
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GET UPDATES DAILY HERE:<br />
<a href="http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4466/">http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4466/</a></div>
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<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-V14cBKbWkoE/VfNGYCBOysI/AAAAAAAAFqY/fSj1KhFd6OA/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-V14cBKbWkoE/VfNGYCBOysI/AAAAAAAAFqY/fSj1KhFd6OA/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT.gif" /></a></div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-73972140883283225302015-08-21T18:11:00.005-07:002015-08-21T18:47:42.950-07:00BLUFF CREEK CLOSED INDEFINITELY DUE TO FIRE THREAT NEAR THE PGF SITE<span style="color: #990000;"><b>NEWS FLASH!</b></span><br />
<span style="color: #990000;"><b><br /></b></span>
Bluff Creek has been closed, and the PGF site is under threat with fire burning within about a mile of the historic location. Due to the <a href="http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4466/"><b>NICKOWITZ FIRE</b></a> burning in Six Rivers National Forest and at the edge of the Siskiyou Wilderness, Bluff Creek is now closed indefinitely in all of the upper watershed area and surrounding ridges and ridge and basin roads. This fire is burning just west of the Patterson-Gimlin film site and the location of the cameras deployed by <b><a href="http://bluffcreekproject.blogspot.com/">BLUFF CREEK FILM SITE PROJECT</a></b>.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_rBZvKV1FkM/VdfFwn-TxpI/AAAAAAAAFo8/-y39yUWduNk/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BFull.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="406" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_rBZvKV1FkM/VdfFwn-TxpI/AAAAAAAAFo8/-y39yUWduNk/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BFull.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Click to enlarge map. Note location of P-G film site at lower right of fire perimeter.</td></tr>
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<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RJB0xwvFAm0/VdfG1luQBFI/AAAAAAAAFpE/xkBjmuTVCl8/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BDetail.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="618" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RJB0xwvFAm0/VdfG1luQBFI/AAAAAAAAFpE/xkBjmuTVCl8/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BDetail.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-V2BuLO8C5EA/VdfDWI0vXPI/AAAAAAAAFo0/ukbwJUVj6jE/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="390" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-V2BuLO8C5EA/VdfDWI0vXPI/AAAAAAAAFo0/ukbwJUVj6jE/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 12.8000001907349px;">A slighly older satellite view of the area showing status last week.</span></td></tr>
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Get updates on the fire incident here:</div>
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<a href="http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4466/">http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4466/</a></div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iswr0Tjgw0c/VdfKf3mfjTI/AAAAAAAAFpg/zRIiBm2NU4w/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BClosure%2B1jpg.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iswr0Tjgw0c/VdfKf3mfjTI/AAAAAAAAFpg/zRIiBm2NU4w/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BClosure%2B1jpg.jpg" width="360" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The USFS closure order. Click to Enlarge.</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PYYwyUoZJvc/VdfKpZldqxI/AAAAAAAAFpo/geYmmtwVaow/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BClosure%2B2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PYYwyUoZJvc/VdfKpZldqxI/AAAAAAAAFpo/geYmmtwVaow/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BClosure%2B2.jpg" width="360" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Click to Enlarge map.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div style="margin-bottom: 6px;">
Obtain the PDF files of the alert notice on this fire here:<br /><a href="http://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/srnf/alerts-notices">http://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/srnf/alerts-notices</a><br />
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Here's a Google Earth view of the Film Site to lower right, and the fire edge along 12N01 Road to upper right. Just count the trees. It's very close to the site.<br />
<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eRo8ySGj_cE/VdfUaW6eGxI/AAAAAAAAFqA/_e_gLfstnDI/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BGoogle%2BEarth.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="524" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eRo8ySGj_cE/VdfUaW6eGxI/AAAAAAAAFqA/_e_gLfstnDI/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BGoogle%2BEarth.jpg" width="640" /></a>CURRENT UPDATE: <br />
"Overnight humidity on the fire increased to levels much higher than in the past several days. Today a light inversion is expected to lift in the late morning. Steady progress is being made on line construction. Holding and securing the Soapstone Gulch area on the south flank is a priority for Friday as is holding and securing the west flank. Partly sunny skies with areas of smoke is expected for today. The fire is currently 4,818 acres. Please remember that there is a temporary forest closure in place around the Nicowitz fire including a portion of the Siskiyou Wilderness. All roads and trails within the closure area will be restricted to authorized personnel only until the fire is declared out."</div>
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Members of the Bluff Creek Project visited the area above the film site and all the way back to the end of the G-O Road at Elk Valley on Sunday and Monday, camping at Bean's Camp, just before the closure order. We could not get down to the PGF site without violating the "Road Closed" sign at the top of 12N13.</div>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mibl_-127Ug/VdfLQxnXw6I/AAAAAAAAFp0/oYTlUlEhv44/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BLeiterman.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="352" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mibl_-127Ug/VdfLQxnXw6I/AAAAAAAAFp0/oYTlUlEhv44/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BLeiterman.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; text-align: start;">Leiterman holding down the law at the 12N13 gate road closure, </span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small; text-align: start;">above Bluff Creek and the PGF site. </span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small; text-align: start;">Smoke from the fire is seen behind him, Sunday evening.</span></td></tr>
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Here is the view down into the Bluff Creek headwaters, toward the film site, on Sunday evening.</div>
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<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3URt6td0tSU/VdfCEFS50dI/AAAAAAAAFoc/m52OioY-ZsY/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2B1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="360" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3URt6td0tSU/VdfCEFS50dI/AAAAAAAAFoc/m52OioY-ZsY/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2B1.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
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<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vV5jmjCJHPM/VdfCPRhWY0I/AAAAAAAAFok/rV8gWIgpsiQ/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2B2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="360" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vV5jmjCJHPM/VdfCPRhWY0I/AAAAAAAAFok/rV8gWIgpsiQ/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2B2.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1gRS7wVfB6Y/VdfHbAArT3I/AAAAAAAAFpQ/i9QPYPg6S3w/s1600/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BGasquet.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1gRS7wVfB6Y/VdfHbAArT3I/AAAAAAAAFpQ/i9QPYPg6S3w/s640/Nickowitz%2BFire%2BGasquet.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Gasquet Complex fire burning near Doctor Rock as seen from Elk Valley.</td></tr>
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HERE'S HOPING HISTORY WON'T BURN.</div>
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In any case, our cameras should survive, and that could produce some very interesting photos and video of animals and maybe even the site burning.</div>
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<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Pvr_bWD2tx8/VdfH9mJikCI/AAAAAAAAFpU/acexltKrreA/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT.gif" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"></a><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Pvr_bWD2tx8/VdfH9mJikCI/AAAAAAAAFpU/acexltKrreA/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT.gif" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Pvr_bWD2tx8/VdfH9mJikCI/AAAAAAAAFpU/acexltKrreA/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT.gif" /></a></div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-66555683357658799272015-08-13T16:28:00.003-07:002015-08-14T18:03:01.324-07:00Kelly Shaw of RMSO is Extremely Jealous, and Dense. His Baseless and Stupid Attacks on Bluff Creek Project<div class="ys" style="margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0px 20px; position: relative;">
<b><span style="color: #990000;">A Demonstration of Just How Much of an Idiot Kelly Shaw Really Is</span></b></div>
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<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iVWXzVmD2us/Vc0cfFl26gI/AAAAAAAAFns/M_-TvpwembY/s1600/Kelly%2BShaw%2BLooks%2BLike%2BPerson.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="400" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iVWXzVmD2us/Vc0cfFl26gI/AAAAAAAAFns/M_-TvpwembY/s400/Kelly%2BShaw%2BLooks%2BLike%2BPerson.jpg" width="363" /></a>He runs the Rocky Mountain Sasquatch Organization, which is just him, his kid, his wife, and one friend with an obsession with toy helicopters. His videos on YouTube are among the most ridiculous "field research" activities we've ever seen. Wherever Kelly goes, something gets named after Bigfoot, and Sasquatch "evidence" is found literally EVERYWHERE. In every depression in the ground he sees a track, and he sees Bigfoot activity in every broken branch or pile of sticks. He is the darling of clickbait blog, BIGFOOT EVIDENCE, where he gets free advertisement. He does all of this to get .002 cents per view on YouTube. I guess it's worth it to him. Recently, he's gotten worse. He now sees orbs on trail cameras, and Bigfoot blobsquatches in every shadow. Here is a fine example. THIS is his idea of Bigfoot, and he even says "It looks like a real person." Are you kidding me??</div>
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<div class="ys" style="margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0px 20px; position: relative;">
And now, out of sheer jealousy, he has been attacking the <b><a href="http://bluffcreekproject.blogspot.com/">BLUFF CREEK PROJECT</a></b>. Lacking anything like a real criticism, he just makes things up, or exaggerates from a bit of speculative thinking that Jamie, a group member, did on a webcast (see link below). He has posted this kind of crud and lies in at least 12 Facebook Bigfooting groups that we know of, and likely many more that are closed or unknown to us. He gets all of his friends to give our videos a "thumb down" on YouTube. How childish. This is OBSESSION. What a fragile ego. What a hothead. What a fool. What's most funny is that none of it is even TRUE. Rather than belabor any defense of a project that really needs no defense, I'll just copy and paste this little battle with the nitwit from the YouTube page for that video. </div>
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<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BpVKz7UabYo/Vc0j8JrGA3I/AAAAAAAAFoI/4SCiNQG_0vg/s1600/Kelly%2BShaw%2BTROLL%2B1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="232" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BpVKz7UabYo/Vc0j8JrGA3I/AAAAAAAAFoI/4SCiNQG_0vg/s640/Kelly%2BShaw%2BTROLL%2B1.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
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Have fun! </div>
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***</div>
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<a aria-hidden="true" class="ob Jk" href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/113476231877448439515" oid="113476231877448439515" style="color: #3366cc; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;"><img alt="" class="Uk wi hE" height="46px" oid="113476231877448439515" src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pBgm_0utm3o/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAA_w/p0YZJSi7Sr4/s46-c-k-no/photo.jpg" style="border-radius: 50%; border: 0px; float: left; margin: 20px 15px 0px 0px; padding: 0px;" width="46px" /></a><br />
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Kelly Shaw<br />
commented on a video on YouTube.<br />
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<span class="uG Ve o-mma" style="color: #999999; display: inline-block; font-size: 12px;"><span aria-haspopup="true" class="d-s Vt Hm dk Q9" jsname="lUFH9b" role="button" style="cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; outline: none;" tabindex="0" title="Sharing details">Shared publicly</span> - <span class="uv PL" style="float: none;"><a class="o-U-s FI Rg" href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/113476231877448439515/posts/cTAoco3k3p4" rel="noreferrer" style="color: #999999; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; margin-left: 0px; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank" title="Jul 15, 2015, 4:41:28 PM">Jul 15, 2015</a></span></span></header><header class="lea">Wait a minute? What do you mean you want to get to the point where you can pay a grad student to do your Bigfooting? To service game cameras? 1st of all that is a poor use of donations and 2nd. You cant call your self a researcher if you have delusions of grandure and are going to pay someone to Bigfoot for you. What a joke. Lets start a Bigfoot organization, call our selves experts and stay at home while someone does our Bigfooting for us. Couldn't contain myself on that statement guys. I am sure that isn't your end goal. Keep on squatching fellas.</header></div>
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<a class="ob tv Ub TD" href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/100403352841402609806" oid="100403352841402609806" rel="nofollow" style="color: #404040; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18.2000007629395px; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">don engelmeier</a><br />
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<span class="dE Jj"><span class="Rg" style="color: #999999; display: inline; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 0px;" title="Jul 16, 2015, 2:45:04 AM">Jul 16, 2015</span></span><span class="DI wp"></span><br />
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that about says it on that good job Kelly</div>
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<span class="dE Jj"><span class="Rg" style="color: #999999; display: inline; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 0px;" title="Jul 20, 2015, 4:18:50 PM">Jul 20, 2015</span></span><span class="DI wp"></span><br />
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/113476231877448439515" oid="113476231877448439515" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Kelly Shaw</a></span> You imbecile.That's not even what we plan do do. Kelly Shaw is just factually wrong. The idea that Jamie expresses in that interview is that we have some 20 cameras and growing, and we'd like to expand the project into new areas. To do this, the idea is to get a few affiliate wildlife biology students who might want to take on an area of their own near our current project spots. For them this could be good experience with a real wildlife field study, as well as a little money to get through school. We fully intend to continue to do our own areas in the Project. However, it can't just go on forever necessarily, as people's lives change. The idea then is to diversify the Project and to assure its continuity. Shaw is just jealous. I never saw him using trail cameras and quadcopters until long after we were using them in Bluff Creek. He thinks doing real research is some kind of competition, when it is not. It's about intelligent use of proper scientific methods and field application, with critical thinking about the results, without the constant assumption that every sign in the woods is from a Bigfoot.</div>
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<span class="dE Jj"><span class="Rg" style="color: #999999; display: inline; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 0px;" title="Jul 20, 2015, 4:20:35 PM">Jul 20, 2015</span></span><span class="DI wp"></span><br />
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/113476231877448439515" oid="113476231877448439515" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Kelly Shaw</a></span> What of the Project grows to have some fifty cameras? Wouldn't that be cool? Obviously, to do that we'd have to take on new affiliates or members. We all have jobs, kids, families, or school, and can't spend all of our time tending to trail cameras. To grow, participating members need to be added. I've seen Kelly Shaw with maybe two cameras. How many does he have? Why is he so jealous when it's obvious that he is copying our project as inspiration for his own field efforts? What he should be saying is, "Thanks."</div>
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<a class="ob tv Ub TD" href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/115614510986544206469" oid="115614510986544206469" rel="nofollow" style="color: #404040; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18.2000007629395px; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Steven Streufert</a><br />
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<span class="dE Jj"><span class="Rg" style="color: #999999; display: inline; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 0px;" title="Jul 20, 2015, 4:22:53 PM">Jul 20, 2015</span></span><span class="DI wp"></span><br />
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/113476231877448439515" oid="113476231877448439515" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Kelly Shaw</a></span> Truth and reality don't care about egotistical propaganda. That is all that Kelly Shaw has, that and his self-defensive temper. He can find no valid criticism of Bluff Creek Project, so he just makes sh*t up. The fact is, he is just mad because Jamie commented on his latest blobsquatch photo, saying, "Someone left the gate open at the funny farm." Jealousy and anger are NOT how proper scientific research is done.</div>
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<a class="ob tv Ub TD" href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/113476231877448439515" oid="113476231877448439515" rel="nofollow" style="color: #404040; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18.2000007629395px; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Kelly Shaw</a><br />
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<span class="dE Jj"><span class="Rg" style="color: #999999; display: inline; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 0px;" title="Jul 20, 2015, 6:34:10 PM">Jul 20, 2015</span></span><span class="DI wp"></span><br />
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/115614510986544206469" oid="115614510986544206469" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Steven Streufert</a></span> Hello Ladies, I see you brought the same crew that holds your hand when you go to the restroom. 1st of all, you want a little respect from me, don't talk down to me or throw names around. Or you wont ever get a smidgen of respect from me that you certainly do not deserve. 2nd of all, because you are out there mooching off of the 47 year old P&G success don't expect automatic respect from me or anyone else. Your going to have to earn it bug eye boy. I have no problem with you begging for donations from the Bigfoot community, but when one of your girlfriends spouts off about your delusions of grandeur to pay someone to do it for you, because its hard. It takes like 5 hours. Wha!. I don't care to hear you ladies cry. There is no crying in Bigfooting. I have thick skin and can take the bashing from you girls. But don't expect respect in return over your bullying and name calling. I would prefer to smash you in the nose than sit and listen to you wine. When you all decide to grow up and get some balls and start treating others with a little dignity and respect. Perhaps we can chat then. Make sure you gals keep your skirts hiked up while Bigfooting, would hate to see you get mud on your hems.</div>
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You have gone crazy, I know I struck a cord of truth with you getting all bent out of shape. I know the welfare checks must not be enough so you insist on mooching off of Patterson & Gimlin success and take your cardboard sign & collection hat to the Bigfoot community. I don't need to beg for a dime, I can pay for my equipment and expeditions on my own. However I do have a job and do not have to rely on assistance from the State. </div>
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I did some checking around and noticed that you, your team nor anyone of the members of your team has a permit to do what you do in a National Forest. I pay for my permits, why don't you all have yours? I think if someone contacted the proper authorities about not following through on getting a permit, your whole operation may screetch to a halt.</div>
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Would you like me to email you a copy of my latest permit to film in a National Forest. I am sure the cost will put your welfare relying ass into a state of shock. You want to talk about Science. Real scientists go through proper channels and get proper permits to do "research".</div>
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/113476231877448439515" oid="113476231877448439515" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Kelly Shaw</a></span> Looks like someone left the gate open at the funny farm...</div>
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/113476231877448439515" oid="113476231877448439515" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Kelly Shaw</a></span> Why the hatred? We have been doing good research and work for the past four years. We have successfully located and mapped the Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot film site. We only work there because we live there. We're not Bigfoot hunters we're just enthusiasts, scientists, and historians. We are not trying to emulate professionals, we are professionals, each of us holds a science degree, and Steven holds a masters. We have been lucky enough to have other people who are interested in the site to help us purchase lithium batteries for the cameras. Some people even donate whole cameras. We don't need permits for what we are currently doing and have had many sit down with the park service. We have even led a group of their lead scientists and rangers to the site to document it. Next year they are going to start working on an official trail to the site so we are going to start helping the park to raise the funds to do that as well. You should come out here to Humboldt County and see the site for yourself. We freely publish the location. I'm sure one of our big cats would love to meet you.</div>
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OK, Einstein. May want to get that ego in check.<br />
Guess you are too much into your self to notice we have dozens of photos and vids of Mountain Lions too. Dime a dozen, we have upwards of 5,000 in the last wildlife census in the North part of our State alone. No big deal.<br />
Good luck with your project, wouldn't want to derail something like this. It needs to be done, however I will be the 1st to kick you in the nuts and let you know that your ego and lack of respect for people will ultimately lead to your demise.<br />
If you had some manners and a little humility our team would of already purchased a few game cameras for you by now. Perhaps you should have someone manage this project that has a little charisma and or charm.</div>
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<span class="dE Jj"><span class="Rg" style="color: #999999; display: inline; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 0px;" title="Jul 21, 2015, 6:20:41 PM">Jul 21, 2015</span></span><span class="DI wp"></span><br />
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/113476231877448439515" oid="113476231877448439515" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Kelly Shaw</a></span> Looks like someone keeps leaving the gate open at the funny farm...</div>
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<a class="ob tv Ub TD" href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/113476231877448439515" oid="113476231877448439515" rel="nofollow" style="color: #404040; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18.2000007629395px; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Kelly Shaw</a><br />
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<span class="dE Jj"><span class="Rg" style="color: #999999; display: inline; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 0px;" title="Jul 21, 2015, 6:50:24 PM
(edited Jul 21, 2015, 6:50:58 PM)">Jul 21, 2015</span></span><span class="DI wp"></span><br />
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Yes it does and now he lives in a little pathetic bookstore.</div>
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<a class="ob tv Ub TD" href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/100403352841402609806" oid="100403352841402609806" rel="nofollow" style="color: #404040; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18.2000007629395px; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">don engelmeier</a><br />
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<span class="dE Jj"><span class="Rg" style="color: #999999; display: inline; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 0px;" title="Jul 22, 2015, 1:29:56 PM">Jul 22, 2015</span></span><span class="DI wp"></span><br />
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/113476231877448439515" oid="113476231877448439515" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Kelly Shaw</a></span> bro he gets his books late at night behind the public library just look inside one ....and the project well i bet if ya located all the cameras they have put out i bet there probably within a square mile of each other these assholes have become the $$$$$$$$$$$$ sucking ticks on the back of a drop dead good looking gal named Patty she stepped in to our lives from big screen and became an instant movie star mysterious elusive and sought out by many<br />
and she did it in one take with that look back as if to say this wont happen again. and walked in to history. so many amazed by her. go to the site now .look around and you will see there are no sasquatch . there now so many people go in and out of there now.<br />
and the one`s getting $$$$$$ will always throw sticks at your spoke`s don`nt even respond to them Kelly you need all of your<br />
attention on the sas you guys are a class act Kelly those guys are an ass act don`t lower your self to there level cause if ya do you have to breath there shit... trolls be trollin<br />
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<span class="dE Jj"><span class="Rg" style="color: #999999; display: inline; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 0px;" title="Aug 11, 2015, 4:00:05 PM">Aug 11, 2015</span></span><span class="DI wp"></span><br />
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/113476231877448439515" oid="113476231877448439515" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Kelly Shaw</a></span> Total funny farm. And no, I don't live in my bookstore. What do you have against books, Shaw? Oh, that's right, you're an ignoramus and a fool. And also, you are a liar. You're obviously just jealous of us and our Project and our fine area of research. If you really want to prove yourself so badly, go out and do something worthy. Sitting here ranting on YouTube and all over Facebook groups is getting you nowhere. People see you for what you are, and so you defeat yourself.</div>
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<a class="ob tv Ub TD" href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701" oid="103032030291689815701" rel="nofollow" style="color: #404040; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18.2000007629395px; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Steven Streufert</a><br />
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<span class="dE Jj"><span class="Rg" style="color: #999999; display: inline; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 0px;" title="Aug 11, 2015, 4:07:57 PM">Aug 11, 2015</span></span><span class="DI wp"></span><br />
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/100403352841402609806" oid="100403352841402609806" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">don engelmeier</a></span> You are wrong, Don. Do the facts matter to you? I guess not. You're just here to spew a bunch of putrid hurl all over the place, further proving that the Bigfoot community is insane and likely Bigfoot is just a deranged fantasy of warped minds. You're doing no good for Bigfooting, and certainly not for your Buddy Kelly Shaw, as your pathetic attempt at criticism only reflects back upon you. FACTS: no, I don't get all my books behind the public library. Liar. FACT: We don't "get" any $$$$$ at all... all funds are put into camera implementation, and in fact anyone who supports a camera in full out there always has the option of requesting it sent to them when its field time is done. This is a publicly funded, open, transparent, non-egotistical, objective project. Have you any comprehension of that? It's how wildlife surveys are done. It's how science is done. FACT: Actually, there are constant reports of Bigfoot activity in Bluff Creek, and there have been going back to before the Europeans came here. Clearly, you're just jealous of our wonderful research area. FACT: Trolls be trollin'? Yeah, like YOU. Like Kelly Shaw, who has posted troll posts based upon misconceptions and full of lies all over the internet, posting in over 12 Facebook groups we know of in just one day. THAT is pathetic, and it is trolling. We aren't the ones on the attack. HE is. We're just doing our own thing, and Kellyboy should really get back to doing something more worthy with his time.</div>
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/103032030291689815701" oid="103032030291689815701" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Steven Streufert</a></span> Would you rather live in lies and errors, or know the truth? Listen in here ( <a class="ot-anchor aaTEdf" dir="ltr" href="https://youtu.be/gCdk6Jl65Ec?t=40m17s" jslog="10929; track:click" rel="nofollow" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/gCdk6Jl65Ec?t=40m17s</a> ) on this video at the 40 minute mark to hear what Jamie Wayne really said about possible, hypothetical development of the Bluff Creek Project in the fairly distant future. You can see he in no way says we're paying anyone to "Squatch for us" as Kelly Shaw likes to say. Jamie mentions a possibility of hiring on grad students or getting a professional biologist involved, IF we were to receive some big funding grant from "Uncle So and So," which would be either a private support donation (like Wally Hersom, or someone like that) or a government or academic grant of some kind. In NO WAY does this idea relate to current cameras implemented or any of the funding that comes from the Indiegogo page. So, the fact is, Mr. Shaw is ranting and raving about NOTHING. Tune in to the 45 minute mark to hear what is <b>really</b> being done with the current funding and operations.</div>
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/103032030291689815701" oid="103032030291689815701" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Steven Streufert</a></span> maybe we should all lay off and chill there are no trolls about i apologize Steven for jumping in on this i like the R M S O and i know they are a good bunch i tend to try and stick up for what i like </div>
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/100403352841402609806" oid="100403352841402609806" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">don engelmeier</a></span> Try to be OBJECTIVE. It is Kelly Shaw who is on the attack, without cause, simply out of jealousy and a need for vengeance. "Liking" someone shouldn't bias you against the truth and reality.</div>
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Wow. You still have your panties up in a bunch? Best way to get over it, is to pull your big girl pants up and get out there and look for Bigfoot. That will show every one Stevie. Oh thats right. Its hard. It takes like five hours. Ok well go ahead and pay someone to do it for you with donations you have begged for. That might make you get over this little bump in the road too.</div>
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You imbecile. Go back and listen to what was ACTUALLY said. YOU, Kellyboy, are the one going around in all the Facebook groups whining like a little infant. Grow up, and just do your own thing, rather than lying about us.</div>
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<a class="ob tv Ub TD" href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701" oid="103032030291689815701" rel="nofollow" style="color: #404040; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18.2000007629395px; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Steven Streufert</a><br />
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You have NO valid point of criticism. It was only an HYPOTHETICAL IDEA of what might be done at some time in the future. Jamie mentions a possibility of hiring on grad students or getting a professional biologist involved, IF we were to receive some big funding grant from "Uncle So and So," which would be either a private support donation (like Wally Hersom, or someone like that) or a government or academic grant of some kind. In NO WAY does this idea relate to current cameras implemented or any of the funding that comes from the Indiegogo page. So, the fact is, Mr. Shaw is ranting and raving about NOTHING. You cannot criticize this Project at all in any valid and legitimate way, so you misread his statements and create a bunch of fictional lies. WHY? BECAUSE YOU'RE A PETTY, LITTLE JEALOUS MAN.</div>
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Jamie said your plans were to pay someone to do your Bigfoot field work for you, you then boringly elaborated about it later on. Me pointing out this little tid bit of information is a lie? You run around throwing a tantrum, calling me dozens of names over a truthful statement. I believe we all know who needs to become rational and grow up here Stevie. Now go call your mom so she can give you some advise on how to play nice.</div>
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NO. That is to potentially EXPAND the Project, if someone or some academic institution grants the funds for it. It is NOT what we are doing now, and there are NO plans to stop the core Bluff Creek activities that we have going. You are LYING about that, or you are too dense to understand the English language. I'm not sure which one it is, but probably it is both. It is not a truthful statement you are making, and YOU are the one "running around" everywhere obsessed with us and crying your bullshit to the wind. Everyone thinks you are an idiot now, and it is only made worse by your stupid actions.</div>
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<span class="proflinkWrapper"><span class="proflinkPrefix" style="color: #427fed; transition: color 0.218s;">+</span><a class="proflink aaTEdf" href="https://plus.google.com/103032030291689815701" oid="103032030291689815701" style="color: #427fed; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Steven Streufert</a></span> Go and listen to the video above AGAIN. Jamie says MAYBE IN LIKE TWO YEARS, <b>IF</b> THE PROJECT WERE TO GET A SPECIAL DONATION. We are currently doing our own work, and that will continue indefinitely. We MIGHT expand the Project to include faculty and grad students at the University. This only adds more scientific background and legitimacy. This would only be to EXPAND the project into new areas. I've said this stuff to you a hundred times. Why are you so dense that you cannot just listen and comprehend the reality of the situation. Clearly, you don't want to. All you want is your propaganda lies to go and spew in every Facebook group that will have you. Pathetic, childish competition and jealousy. That is all there is to it, Shaw.</div>
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<a class="ob tv Ub TD" href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/113476231877448439515" oid="113476231877448439515" rel="nofollow" style="background-color: whitesmoke; color: #404040; cursor: pointer; font-family: Roboto, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18.2000007629395px; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Kelly Shaw</a><br />
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Hey weak sauce. No apologies if the strait up hard core truth hurts your feelers. I tell it like it is and since you went off on the band wagon of tossing childish names around, I will call it how I see it. You are simply a mooch. you mooch off of the Patterson/Gimlin success, you use that to mooch donations from the Bigfoot community and now you admit your game plan is to pay someone else to do your project for you. Because its hard and takes too long. Clearly a master minded mooch in progress. To each their own. If someone wants to hand over their hard earned cash to someone trying to ride the coat tails of two hard working men. And has admitted its too hard and they need to pay someone else to get some kind of glory for them. I see through your corruption Steven. </div>
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<a class="ob tv Ub TD" href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701" oid="103032030291689815701" rel="nofollow" style="background-color: whitesmoke; color: #404040; cursor: pointer; font-family: Roboto, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18.2000007629395px; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.218s;">Steven Streufert</a><br />
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<span style="color: #404040; font-family: Roboto, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18.2000007629395px;">KELLY SHAW, calling you an idiot is a simple fact, and not "name-calling." Your obsessive "criticism" is illegitimate and false. I've explained this endlessly to you here, but oh no, you won't listen. And now you're blocking me here in the most cowardly way AFTER making your imbecilic comments. How bold of you. I'll just have to repost my comments to you on the main area. NO, you're wrong. We aren't going to pay anyone to do anything for us. You have seen the explanation of what Jamie meant, and the fact that you still don't acknowledge the actual facts and the truth of the matter shows that you are simply full of crap, you are in denial, or you're just trying to spread a lie for propaganda. Go ahead, keep lying, Shaw. </span></div>
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<span style="color: #404040; font-family: Roboto, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18.2000007629395px;">You said, which is stupid and false:</span></div>
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<span style="color: #404040; font-family: Roboto, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18.2000007629395px;">"Hey weak sauce. No apologies if the strait up hard core truth hurts your feelers. I tell it like it is and since you went off on the band wagon of tossing childish names around, I will call it how I see it. You are simply a mooch. you mooch off of the Patterson/Gimlin success, you use that to mooch donations from the Bigfoot community and now you admit your game plan is to pay someone else to do your project for you. Because its hard and takes too long. Clearly a master minded mooch in progress..."</span></div>
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<a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Rzv0RYmy1NA/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAFmY/TREQe9OuxKQ/s28-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701">Steven Streufert</a> 3:32 PM<br />
Can you actually READ, Kelly Shaw? Did you actually see what the facts are, all above? And, in regard to "mooching"... I've not touched a single penny of the funding money. Jamie handles all of that, and all of it, plus a lot of his own money (not to mention time, gas, and everything else we pay for ourselves) goes into trail cameras and supplies for them. What point do you have that is actually legitimate? NOT A SINGLE ONE. Do you know what a hypothetical idea is? It is something considered as a possibility only. Listen to the damn interview at 40 minutes or so and you can clearly see that Jamie said that only as a possibility two years or more in the future, and also only if we were to get some kind of large grant. Like I said, all the other functions we do in the Project would continue regardless, so you are just plain wrong. You should really just shut your trap, as every time you speak everyone can see what a fool you are.<br />
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<a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/113476231877448439515"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pBgm_0utm3o/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAA_w/p0YZJSi7Sr4/s28-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/113476231877448439515">Kelly Shaw</a> 3:33 PM<br />
You are back pedaling and lying because I called you out on your future plans with the P/G site. No need for me to take in your Bullshit captain dipshit <br />
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<a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Rzv0RYmy1NA/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAFmY/TREQe9OuxKQ/s28-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701">Steven Streufert</a>, 4:00 PM<br />
NO I AM NOT. THAT WAS ONLY SPECULATIVE AND CONTINGENT THINKING ON JAMIE'S PART. WE AREN'T ACTUALLY DOING THAT, AND DON'T HAVE ANY SOLID PLAN TO DO THAT. WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND, KNUCKLEHEAD? <br />
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<a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/113476231877448439515"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pBgm_0utm3o/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAA_w/p0YZJSi7Sr4/s28-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/113476231877448439515">Kelly Shaw</a><br />Yesterday 4:18 PM</div>
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Throwing the knucklehead bomb helped me understand your whole explanation Steven. No solid plan. That's alright, those of us that do are out looking for Bigfoot. Stay at home, pay someone to get out there and possibly get you some glory. All good my friend. I am sure folks will line up by the 100's to get paid to Bigfoot. Guarantee you will have a stack of resume's.<br /><br /><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/117158763643059943351"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RE_ToYI2GWs/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAABI/ydKW4rMkO4s/s28-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/117158763643059943351">mary jagielski</a><br />Yesterday 9:56 PM</div>
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+<a href="https://plus.google.com/103032030291689815701">Steven Streufert</a> how about rev if you and your dr of pseudoscience have the funds and like a story by all means send one. me and snowwalker are two locations so there you go, or get uncle wally the wallet to cough it up. can yall hear me i keep saying location location location, the thing about my story is i live outside a major city so its easy access. the prints will tell you its a patty type man from the front only and giant black spyder monkey from the side a tribe of people who lives by your local creek as close to a river as possible. this mountain funding is ok but not necessary its too hard to get there if its not necessary anymore and the prints say its not always necessary why put all your cameras in one location when the newest print should get one first. snowalker n k heard a biggie and rock clacking i heard a pig squeal in response to me both happened on the 4th of july so there you go. light your rolled sage and clear out the shit in this room, did you get your sweat lodge yet. your move big boy-its a knocker<br /><br /><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/100403352841402609806"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xk3qF1zIE7E/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAATck/t7b9Mv_9xYQ/s28-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/100403352841402609806">don engelmeier</a><br />12:49 AM<br />it add`s a lot to your credibility when you put your boots to the ground and do your own field work at least you can be sure of your findings but there is a side to this that`s the due diligence equipment,permits,team safety,this and much more . makes Kelly Shaw ie.RMSO a team to emulate ........<br /><br /><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Rzv0RYmy1NA/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAFmY/TREQe9OuxKQ/s28-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701">Steven Streufert</a><br />1:09 PM<br /></div>
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+<a href="https://plus.google.com/100403352841402609806">don engelmeier</a> Like I said, Don, that is what we do, and have done in Bluff Creek since 2007. Kelly Shaw's accusations are completely false and spurious. I suggest you try viewing some of our nearly 80 videos on the Bluff Creek Film Site Project and our current trail camera results here on YouTube. Drop Bluff Creek Project into the search box, why don't you. If Kelly Shaw and RMSO do some good work in the field, well, good for them. You're not going to see US getting jealous and posting falsehoods all across the internet based upon one speculative and hypothetical statement made in a webcast when speaking about the potential distant future.<br /><br /><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Rzv0RYmy1NA/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAFmY/TREQe9OuxKQ/s28-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701">Steven Streufert</a><br />1:11 PM<br />+<a href="https://plus.google.com/117158763643059943351">mary jagielski</a> What in the world are you talking about?<br /><br /><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Rzv0RYmy1NA/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAFmY/TREQe9OuxKQ/s28-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701">Steven Streufert</a><br />1:25 PM<br />+<a href="https://plus.google.com/113476231877448439515">Kelly Shaw</a> knuckle head <br />Someone of limited intelligence and with a mean nature. Who prefers using their knuckles/fists, to using their head.<br /><a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/knucklehead">http://www.thefreedictionary.com/knucklehead</a><br /><a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=knucklehead">http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=knucklehead</a><br /><br /><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/113476231877448439515"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pBgm_0utm3o/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAA_w/p0YZJSi7Sr4/s28-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/113476231877448439515">Kelly Shaw</a></div>
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1:36 PM<br />Duesch bag. Someone who mooches off of the 47 year old Patterson Gimlin success by using it to mooch dontations from the bigfoot community. Yet wants someone else to do the work so he can enjoy the lazy spot light of his ill claimed glory. Face it Steven you are a mooch. Simply a mooch. Look that up in your dictionary smart guy. You leach upon the hard work of Patterson Gimlin success. Truely a low life Steven. Your a mooch.<br /><br /><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Rzv0RYmy1NA/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAFmY/TREQe9OuxKQ/s28-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/103032030291689815701">Steven Streufert</a><br />5:41 PM<br />Shaw, why do you persist? You're just making yourself look like an obsessed maniac. There's hardly any point in talking with you, as you don't even listen to the facts. "Mooch"? How so? I've never touched a penny of that money. Not a freaking cent. Jamie had the idea for a public research project that involves anyone who would like to participate. The cameras are owned by the people funding them if they want them back at any time. Donations for batteries and such are freely given by those enthusiastic about the idea and eager to see the results. We've spent far more time in Bluff Creek than Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin ever did. For me, it's just a part of local history, and I've been studying it since 1999. What's your problem now? That we've actually done good and interesting things in studying the history of the area, and now are documenting the wildlife there? What's wrong with that, buddy? Look at yourself... you have no case at all. You're just running at the mouth. How is it any different that you read some sighting report on BFRO or wherever, and then go there and "mooch off their success" in making videos for YouTube pennies? It's not different. The big difference is that for you it is all about you, about your ego, and your need to prove yourself. We are just doing objective research, and it is about finding the facts, whatever they are. It certainly isn't for personal gain in any way, nor is it about trying to prove how awesome we are. You should consider that you're just plain wrong. Do a fact check. Jamie speculating about the future is not actually a fact, but just an idea. It's his idea, like the idea to fund the project publicly. It's funny you try to call me on "mooching" when I have absolutely nothing to do with that aspect of the Project. I do the history and help with the field studies. Maybe you should take up your problems with Jamie. He tells me you never donated anything to the Project, anyway, so why do you pretend that you've somehow been ripped off? All of the expenditures are fully declared on each funding drive the Project does, and people know exactly what they are giving to buy. Cameras, batteries, bear boxes. All the rest comes from us, the gas, the time, the labor, the many trips we do out there all during the part of the year that the area is open to access. Telling a bunch of falsehoods only makes you look petty, and repeating the same false understandings of what we're doing only demonstrates your ignorance. Clearly, you are doing this as propaganda, political bullshit trying to influence the so-called "Bigfoot Community," but you are failing. Everyone now can see that you are a jealous and little man who only yells more loudly and blows out hot air when he is wrong. Do yourself a favor. Give it a rest, and get on with your own efforts.<br />
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<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt1GM_nHAyDH4HmRWRsWjnQ"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-INPs_XAyqtE/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAALo0/Q66-sZ-ZIpE/photo.jpg?sz=50" /></a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt1GM_nHAyDH4HmRWRsWjnQ">don gilchrist</a> Shared on Google+ · <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCdk6Jl65Ec&lc=z133ep15aqrxexs4204ccb15vpaugt0b3n40k">4 weeks ago</a><br />
Wait a minute? What do you mean you want to get to the point where you can pay a grad student to do your Bigfooting? To service game cameras? 1st of all that is a poor use of donations and 2nd. You cant call your self a researcher if you have delusions of grandure and are going to pay someone to Bigfoot for you. What a joke. Lets start a Bigfoot organization, call our selves experts and stay at home while someone does our Bigfooting for us. Couldn't contain myself on that statement guys. I am sure that isn't your end goal. Keep on squatching fellas.<br />
<a href="https://plus.google.com/102672168958246873117">Rocky Mountain Sasquatch Organization</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCdk6Jl65Ec&lc=z133ep15aqrxexs4204ccb15vpaugt0b3n40k">3 weeks ago</a><br />
<a href="https://plus.google.com/118371155164261774931">+don gilchrist</a> No shit<br />
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<a href="https://plus.google.com/103032030291689815701"><img src="https://yt3.ggpht.com/-Rzv0RYmy1NA/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/Iw9sGr7slqg/s32-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/103032030291689815701">Steven Streufert</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCdk6Jl65Ec&lc=z133ep15aqrxexs4204ccb15vpaugt0b3n40k">1 day ago</a><br />
<a href="https://plus.google.com/118371155164261774931">+don gilchrist</a> BASED ON MISCONCEPTIONS AND LIES FROM KELLY SHAW, DON. WE AREN"T PAYING ANYBODY WITH THE FUNDING DONATIONS. You and your friend Kelly should really STFU, or at least get the facts straight. KELLY SHAW, if you weren't so dense I wouldn't have to write any of this. You're only damaging your own reputation by continuing your weeks-long screed against BLUFF CREEK PROJECT. Stop acting like you gave money to the project, because you DIDN'T. Get this through your thick skull, you troglodyte: No funds given to the Project have been spent on anything but for trail cameras and batteries, data cards, bear boxes, screws and locks. Do you know what a hypothetical statement is? Good. Now look, Jamie Wayne was speaking about the theoretical FUTURE of the Project. One idea we've had is to expand the operation beyond what we're currently doing. Part of that would be connecting with the University. Part of that, partly or fully covered by academic grants (and possibly partly by the Project) might be to add team members in the form of actual Wildlife Biologists. This would be supplemental to what we currently do. We do service the cameras some four times a year (and it takes much more than five hours), but that is not all we do. All of us are constantly outdoors, in the woods, and sometimes in Bluff Creek. I'm sorry that you're so insecure that you feel compelled to make all of these supposed problems out of sheer NOTHING, just because you feel like we have outdone you somehow. Just go do your own thing, Shaw. We really don't care. If you find Bigfoot, good for you. We'll just keep doing what we do, no matter if you cry and whine or not. Consider this: every time you open your mouth in these dumb attacks, we just win all the more. If you want to impress people, do so something impressive in your own work, and leave others to theirs when there is no valid basis for criticism whatsoever to be raised.<br />
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<a href="https://plus.google.com/102672168958246873117"><img src="https://yt3.ggpht.com/-V4fo6bPBCuo/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/JRcx2733rK0/s32-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/102672168958246873117">Rocky Mountain Sasquatch Organization</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCdk6Jl65Ec&lc=z133ep15aqrxexs4204ccb15vpaugt0b3n40k">22 minutes ago</a><br />
<a href="https://plus.google.com/103032030291689815701">+Steven Streufert</a> Hey weak sauce. No apologies if the strait up hard core truth hurts your feelers. I tell it like it is and since you went off on the band wagon of tossing childish names around, I will call it how I see it. You are simply a mooch. you mooch off of the Patterson/Gimlin success, you use that to mooch donations from the Bigfoot community and now you admit your game plan is to pay someone else to do your project for you. Because its hard and takes too long. Clearly a master minded mooch in progress. To each their own. If someone wants to hand over their hard earned cash to someone trying to ride the coat tails of two hard working men. And has admitted its too hard and they need to pay someone else to get some kind of glory for them. I see through your corruption Steven.<br />
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<a href="https://plus.google.com/103032030291689815701"><img src="https://yt3.ggpht.com/-Rzv0RYmy1NA/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/Iw9sGr7slqg/s32-c-k-no/photo.jpg" /></a><a href="https://plus.google.com/103032030291689815701">Steven Streufert</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCdk6Jl65Ec&lc=z133ep15aqrxexs4204ccb15vpaugt0b3n40k">1 second ago</a><br />
<a href="https://plus.google.com/102672168958246873117">+Rocky Mountain Sasquatch Organization</a> You are so full of shite it is incomprehensible. One dense MF.<br />
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<a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/Crypto2814"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wFbwZYpBeuU/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAABA/USJOKvguBNY/photo.jpg?sz=50" /></a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/Crypto2814">Crypto2814</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCdk6Jl65Ec&lc=z13tg5biapzqvbe1e22gt5qxatukyn2b504">3 weeks ago</a><br />
Hahaha!! Kelly Shaw threatening to kick people and in the nuts and smash people in the nose. Sure, sure, why didn't you try that on Steven when you allegedly visited Bigfoot Books. Too busy hiding behind the bookshelves, trying get your retard stutter under control, and rub your 2 remaining neurons together to work up the nerve to say something only you would feel is witty? What a keyboard warrior click whore. Go make up some more Bigfoot themed names for already named locations to use in your garbage videos<br />
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<a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/screamdoctor"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XdUIqdMkCWA/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/4252rscbv5M/photo.jpg?sz=50" /></a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/screamdoctor">screamdoctor</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCdk6Jl65Ec&lc=z12uufwi4tmofbb14220tv5zvqrujdxlk">4 days ago</a><br />
5 years, 50 cameras, 500 gallons of gas, 5000 man hours, and they got no pictures of Bigfoot to show for it. They failed to seek the advice of game camera experts on the high frequency sounds that game cameras emit, and the light that game cameras emit. They failed to refer to the Australian study the showed why game cameras don't work for their Yowie. And they failed to factor in the paranormal existence of the Bigfoot. Perhaps the projects title should be revised based on the above, to The Giant Bluff Creek Bigfoot Fail Camera Project. Thank you very much.<br />
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<a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/iamsatan6"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Rzv0RYmy1NA/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAFmY/TREQe9OuxKQ/photo.jpg?sz=50" /></a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/iamsatan6">Steven Streufert</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCdk6Jl65Ec&lc=z12uufwi4tmofbb14220tv5zvqrujdxlk">23 hours ago</a><br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/screamdoctor">+screamdoctor</a> We are not trying to PROVE Bigfoot exists. We are TESTING THE HYPOTHESIS. If you do not understand this distinction you have absolutely no idea of what real science and real wildlife surveying is. There are no high frequency sounds, just ask our tech guy Jamie. These cameras DO NOT emit light until they are triggered. There is no Yowie, and why should we listen to some oddball Australian cryptozoologists? You make no sense at all. All of your points are FALSE. We consider it a success to observe reality, and we're happy with all the results we get with the real wildlife out there; and if Bigfoot actually exists and lives there, we'd be happy to see one appear before our cameras. So far, though, our observations make a good case for the non-existence of Bigfoot, or at least for its absence from Bluff Creek, its most famous historical habitat.<br />
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<a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/MrKeltic1"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-86FCfJ9dfPQ/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAABQ/jmWYzGXxjhY/photo.jpg?sz=50" /></a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/MrKeltic1">MrKeltic1</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCdk6Jl65Ec&lc=z123fl1gooinux15e04cex2ydyj0xje4bv00k">3 weeks ago (edited)</a><br />
What happened to Kelly Shaw and his criticism/comment about the Bluff Creek Project? Did he go back to "Bullsh_t Highway", ""Crock O' Sh_t Canyon" or where ever it is that he does his fantasy role-playing? It looks like he ran with his tail between his legs when the criticism was turned back on him. LOL He seems to measure his "research" achievements by the number of hits he gets on his amateurish, self-promoting videos and/or the number of gullible groupies he has. He has the worst case of confirmation bias of any of the self-proclaimed "bigfoot researchers" out there. Everything is bigfoot to the guy. If he saw a dog take a dump in a Walmart parking lot, he would make a video of the results, post it on YouTube and claim that it was bigfoot scat from the make-believe "Bigfoot Highway". His "Yellowstone tourists with ski poles being bigfoot" fiasco really showed that he lacks the objectivity, common sense and logical thinking to ever be a "researcher". He's going to have to settle for just being the ill-tempered laughing stock of bigfootery.<br />
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WATCH THE VIDEO HERE: <br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCdk6Jl65Ec">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCdk6Jl65Ec </a><br />
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BLUFF CREEK PROJECT <br />
<a href="http://bluffcreekproject.blogspot.com/">bluffcreekproject.blogspot.com</a></div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-60459330891181105862015-08-03T18:54:00.000-07:002015-08-07T13:21:32.725-07:00BLUFF CREEK HISTORICAL VIDEOS AND 1967-1968 TIMELINE INFORMATION<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yAs5kmoEUUQ/VcAXXFO7BuI/AAAAAAAAFm0/l81A6JGvT2A/s1600/Bigwallacepatterson2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="400" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yAs5kmoEUUQ/VcAXXFO7BuI/AAAAAAAAFm0/l81A6JGvT2A/s400/Bigwallacepatterson2.jpg" width="248" /></a><b><span style="color: #990000;">BIGFOOT'S BLOG</span></b>, <br />
Quick Post for August 3rd, 2015: BLUFF CREEK HISTORICAL VIDEOS AND TIMELINE INFORMATION<br />
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In 1967 three major events in Bigfoot history occurred in the Bluff Creek basin, First, in late August, tracks were found along the dirt road and adjacent hillsides of Onion Mountain. These were investigated by John Green and Rene Dahinden. Then, a few days later, just after John Green had gotten back home in Canada, another track collection, this time of three different sizes of feet, was found on nearby Blue Creek Mountain. Contractor Bud Ryerson called Green on a radio phone of some sort, and another trip down to California was put together immediately. This time they brought a tracking dog, White Lady, her handler Dale Moffit, the pilot Keith Chiazarri (often mistaken for Bob Timus by "Massacre Theory adherents like MK Davis and Bobbie Short). Of note regarding these two track finds is that the images in the ground and the casts both appear to be perfect matches for wooden footprint stompers made by one Ray Wallace, erstwhile Bluff Creek road-building contractor. Ray had moved from Willow Creek by then, but his brother Wilbur "Shorty" still lived there (in the house next door to where I myself now reside, in fact).<br />
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The other event of that year, of course, was the capture (or making) of the Patterson-Gimlin film. Right after Green and the others had left the area, local shop owner and Bigfoot go-to guy, Al Hodgson, called the Patterson home and spoke with Roger's wife, Patricia, about he events. Roger and Bob were out at Mount St. Helens around that time of the Labor Day weekend, but when they got back and heard the news they immediately started planning for an expedition to Bluff Creek. They didn't make it out of Yakima until very late September (according to Gimlin's current memory), or sometime in earlier October (according to other accounts).<br />
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For more, see the timeline of these events, following these videos from that time. Here are two classics from Bluff Creek history, to which I've added the stabilization and color enhancement from YouTube. I've posted these so that they won't ever disappear from the internet.<br />
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Here is Rene Dahinden's footage from Bluff Creek, while investigating the Blue Creek Mountain trackway, and subsequent footprint finds. This is the so-called "Tracking Dog Video," which is mistakenly associated by MK Davis and others with the Patterson-Gimlin film event that occurred nearly two months later. This is from late August and the first days of September, 1967, while the PGF was shot on October 20th that year. Please note, there are no "dead Bigfoot" in this footage, and no blood on "Titmus'" hands. In fact, that is Keith Chiazarri, the pilot for the trip down from Canada. When asked just the other day, John Green confirmed that it was Rene's camera and Rene who shot this film. Green only took still photos on that trip.<br />
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Rene Dahinden's Blue Creek Mountain Bigfoot Trackway Footage:<br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-amhCCTTlbU" width="420"></iframe><br />
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YouTube stabilization and color balancing added. Bill Munns has confirmed this as an unedited film sequence, a copy of the full camera roll that was in Roger Patterson's Kodak Cine K-100 camera that day of October 20th, 1967.<br />
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Here is ROLL ONE, COMPLETE: Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot Film and Preliminary Scenery of Bluff Creek. <br />
NOTE: It seems to me that this video copy has the film projected at a just slightly too rapid speed. the last part with Bigfoot runs only about 49 seconds, whereas in most versions we see it runs about 58 or 59 seconds. Also, the movements of the horses are a touch jerky and fast. Were it played at the correct speed, that would make the length of the film roll seen here about 4 minutes not three and one half. I've been told that he K-100 film rolls would cover about 4-6 minutes of filming, depending upon the camera speed setting. Bill Munns has confirmed that this clip shows no sign of splicing or editing. So far as we can tell it's the footage as it came from Roger's camera that day.<br />
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Here's the ONION AND BLUE CREEK MOUNTAIN TO PGF BLUFF CREEK TIMELINE, reprinted here from an older blog article of mine.....<br />
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And now: <strong>Notes on the 1967 Timeline of events from Onion Mountain, to Blue Creek Mountain, and finally the Bluff Creek Patterson-Gimlin Film</strong>.<br />
These events note the actions of John Green mainly during the time, but also cover the locations of the main figures--Bob Titmus, Roger Patterson, Bob Gimlin and Rene Dahinden--accused in the "Bluff Creek Massacre Theory." These locations of individuals and timings of events completely DISPROVE that theory.</div>
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From our notes, taken so far mostly from Green's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Sasquatch-Among-John-Willison-Green/dp/0888391234" style="color: #6572ff; text-decoration: none;">SASQUATCH: APES AMONG US</a>:</div>
<span style="background-color: #000017; color: #e3dcff; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 13.5240001678467px; line-height: 20.2859992980957px;">* FEBRUARY 1967: Green and Dahinden head south, visit Roger Patterson, visit Willow Creek and hear of recent BF "activities" on Bluff Creek, meet Syl McCoy</span><br />
<br style="background-color: #000017; color: #e3dcff; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 13.5240001678467px; line-height: 20.2859992980957px;" />
<span style="background-color: #000017; color: #e3dcff; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 13.5240001678467px; line-height: 20.2859992980957px;">* "LATE AUGUST 1967" (not too specific): Syl McCoy of Willow Creek calls Green at home re. tracks found on Onion Mountain</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #000017; color: #e3dcff; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 13.5240001678467px; line-height: 20.2859992980957px;">* Green contacts Harold McCullough for tracking dog (White Lady)</span><br />
<span style="background-color: #000017; color: #e3dcff; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 13.5240001678467px; line-height: 20.2859992980957px;">* Drives south with McCullough, Dale Moffit and dog, sees tracks</span><br />
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* Even LATER AUGUST 1967: First day after getting home Green is called re. Blue Creek Mountain tracks by Bud Ryerson, contractor on the Bluff Creek project.</div>
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* SAME AFTERNOON: on a plane with Moffit, Rene Dahinden and White Lady, calls Al Hodgson for provisions to be at Orleans airport.</div>
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* NIGHT: Arrival at BCM site, dog reacts but they don't want to track in the dark.</div>
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* NEXT DAY, MORNING: No dog response</div>
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* EVENING: Return to Orleans for phone calls, return to Bluff Creek area with pilot, go to older Onion Mountain tracks, find new 12-inch prints.</div>
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* NEXT DAY: To BCM again, 2 small sets one large of tracks found (590 counted not destroyed by road activity)</div>
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* VAGUE ("2 days") (Now EARLY SEPTEMBER): Don Abbot arrives from B.C. Museum; they hear word of sandbar tracks just downstream from future PGF site. THIS IS THE SANDBAR AREA, apparently, where the film that MK is looking at came from.</div>
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* Flight back to Canada</div>
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* SEPTEMBER: Patterson on BF expedition in Mt. Saint Helens area. Upon return home hears that Al Hodgson has called his wife about the tracks found in Aug-Sept. in Bluff Creek area. Begins to plan expedition.</div>
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* VARYING DATES, either OCTOBER 1st P-G departure (Murphy), or "A little over a week" (Patterson) or just "a few days" (Green) before filming. So... sometime between October 2nd and October 21st Patterson and Gimlin are in Bluff Creek.</div>
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<span style="background-color: #000017; color: #e3dcff; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 13.5240001678467px; line-height: 20.2859992980957px;">* OCTOBER 20TH: PATTERSON-GIMLIN FILM SHOT</span><br />
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* OCTOBER 22ND: FILM FIRST VIEWED IN YAKIMA. Present: Green comes from Canada; Dahinden was in SF at filming time, promoting the tracks found BCM/OM, cannot get to film site due to weather; Titmus has come from Kitimat, Canada as well (ALL OF THEM WERE IN OTHER AREAS AT TIME OF FILMING).</div>
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* SOMETIME AFTER, BEFORE TITMUS ARRIVES: Jim McClarin goes to site. Lyle Laverty also at site, photographs tracks. Others also witness, mostly locals to the area/forest workers</div>
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<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HRiGgliTOzc/SzfShgtI_3I/AAAAAAAABb8/UaaWZIpmkaU/s1600-h/Green+with+Casts.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; color: #6572ff; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-decoration: none;"><img border="0" ps="true" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HRiGgliTOzc/SzfShgtI_3I/AAAAAAAABb8/UaaWZIpmkaU/s320/Green+with+Casts.jpg" style="background: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: none; box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039) 1px 1px 5px; padding: 8px; position: relative;" /></a></div>
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* LATER OCTOBER to EARLY NOVEMBER: TITMUS in Bluff Creek area for a number of days, finds film site and casts tracks NINE OR TEN DAYS AFTER OCT. 20TH FILMING.</div>
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* JUNE 1968: After snows clear and roads reopen, John Green at film site with McClarin, makes film, documents dimensions.</div>
<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lous1fP1sKQ/VcAa0wCsh2I/AAAAAAAAFnI/1zeGl-yNEcs/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT%2B2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><br /></a>
<span style="background-color: #000017; color: #e3dcff; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 13.5240001678467px; line-height: 20.2859992980957px;">So, the timeline is really pretty clear. Green was in the Bluff to Willow Creek area three times that summer-fall. A busy guy.</span><br />
<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lous1fP1sKQ/VcAa0wCsh2I/AAAAAAAAFnI/1zeGl-yNEcs/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT%2B2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; display: inline !important; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lous1fP1sKQ/VcAa0wCsh2I/AAAAAAAAFnI/1zeGl-yNEcs/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT%2B2.jpg" /></a><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lous1fP1sKQ/VcAa0wCsh2I/AAAAAAAAFnI/1zeGl-yNEcs/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT%2B2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; display: inline !important; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;">*</a><div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-7573924163428936512015-06-23T17:52:00.002-07:002015-06-23T18:07:27.000-07:00What to Do and Not to Do when Visiting the Patterson-Gimlin Film Site in Bluff Creek<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jDJIxHVWxzk/VYSLt_xtYYI/AAAAAAAAFfE/OcEjPUbQBdY/s1600/PGF%2BF364.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="310" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jDJIxHVWxzk/VYSLt_xtYYI/AAAAAAAAFfE/OcEjPUbQBdY/s400/PGF%2BF364.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">PGF frame showing the true colors found there in October.</td></tr>
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<b><span style="color: #990000;">BIGFOOT'S BLOG, Late-June 2015 Edition</span></b><br />
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How to Treat the PGF Film Site at Bluff Creek When Visiting: <b>Keep in Mind, You are Walking on History</b>.<br />
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Please see below for some of the things you really should avoid doing on the Film Site, if you care at all about Bigfoot and its history in Bluff Creek. Bluff Creek Project is currently working with the USFS and its new chairman, Merv George, to get the site declared an Historical Landmark.<br />
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Recall the red color behind the film subject, around the front and eastern side of the PGF site Big Tree? Those are vine maples, a lovely shrubby tree that goes from green in the summer, to pale yellowish-green in the fall, finally turning red when the cold of winter begins to set in come later October or November. These leaves are part of how we know that the film was not shot in August or September, as some claim. It shows a scene that is in correspondence with the story told by Patterson and Gimlin. Hence, these trees are evidence. When we finally located the PGF site, part of what verified it for us was the vine maples there in front of the signature Douglas fir, beside the broadleaf maple that provides the yellow color in the film. That latter maple is still there and growing, nearly fifty years later. In the same spot, the progeny of the PGF vine maples stood.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DE8fwwYzxU0/VYn1DlWX5JI/AAAAAAAAFjw/-UMuJYu8VJA/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B13.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DE8fwwYzxU0/VYn1DlWX5JI/AAAAAAAAFjw/-UMuJYu8VJA/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B13.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Big Tree in its context. Thankfully there are a few vine maples left on the spot to the right and higher up the bank. You can see them here. This and following photographs by Steven Streufert, copyright 2015.</td></tr>
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Well, upon our return to the site a few days ago we found that these important trees had been amateurishly sawn down. About the Big Tree we found four stumps of old vine maple, with their trunks and branches senselessly left in front of the tree, blocking foot access to the trunk. Someone had cut these down (we know who, as they were caught on our trail cameras), hoping to get a better photograph of the Big Tree. Maybe they were thinking of doing a film recreation, but that is impossible without major logging of the trees now covering the former barren sandbar.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-f7iRCQdEoTc/VYnvpmJnyyI/AAAAAAAAFho/cd-99FzC0sg/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B3.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-f7iRCQdEoTc/VYnvpmJnyyI/AAAAAAAAFho/cd-99FzC0sg/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B3.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Senseless destruction of life and history.</td></tr>
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Above is the Big Tree as it stands today, also showing historic vine maple trees cut down by a certain noted Bigfoot researcher, destroying part of the evidence of the site. I counted at least 35 annual growth rings, making these trees the progeny of those seen in the PGF.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xQn1dVfgh9k/VYn_zSM_HsI/AAAAAAAAFks/S-Hg9QZUzy8/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xQn1dVfgh9k/VYn_zSM_HsI/AAAAAAAAFks/S-Hg9QZUzy8/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B2.jpg" width="352" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 12.8000001907349px;">Our guests from Arkansas, supporters of the Bluff Creek Project, <br />who came with us to the site last week. Here they are having a <br />tough time getting through the downed vine maple branches.</span></td></tr>
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The sawn stumps. These trees are the kind that provided the red color in the background of the PGF.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EvCZ_irNtFk/VYoABFpH_lI/AAAAAAAAFk0/lYdSK_SMp5o/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B6.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EvCZ_irNtFk/VYoABFpH_lI/AAAAAAAAFk0/lYdSK_SMp5o/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B6.jpg" width="360" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 12.8000001907349px;">At least 35 years of growth, almost as old as the film itself. <br />These grew from the same patch you see at the bottom<br /> of the Big Tree in the film.</span></td></tr>
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If you go to the PGF site, treat the fragile artifacts of history with care. That includes the old stumps seen in the Bigfoot film. These have been there as they are since they were cut as part of the salvage logging done after the massive 1964 Flood, between 1965 and 1966. These are key artifacts on the film site, helping to establish our documentation and proof of the site, but also useful in determining the location and size of the film subject.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LMqdO-htLmk/VYnyqnjFhBI/AAAAAAAAFiY/JXhZiF2R9zQ/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B8.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LMqdO-htLmk/VYnyqnjFhBI/AAAAAAAAFiY/JXhZiF2R9zQ/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B8.jpg" width="352" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Big Stump, to left of subject in Frame 352 et seq.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_cno5s5BCO0/VYnzKV3T2NI/AAAAAAAAFig/2qcUVH6uHIo/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B7.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_cno5s5BCO0/VYnzKV3T2NI/AAAAAAAAFig/2qcUVH6uHIo/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B7.jpg" width="352" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Tall, or "Smiley" Stump, <span style="font-size: 12.8000001907349px;">to right of subject in Frame 352 et seq. </span><br />
<span style="font-size: 12.8000001907349px;">Showing significant degradation from people leaning & sitting on it.</span></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
And the log piles, too. Don't walk or sit on these, if you can avoid it at all. They are seen in the film and are part of our modern survey map. These are old growth fir logs left behind on the sandbar by the 1964 Flood.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pf6My2ow3Uc/VYnzbdoTafI/AAAAAAAAFio/6yW_w9RhVJA/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B9.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pf6My2ow3Uc/VYnzbdoTafI/AAAAAAAAFio/6yW_w9RhVJA/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B9.jpg" width="352" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Part of the debris pile behind which the subject walks after<br />
Frame 352, at the front of the current sandbar.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9XexNIweOR8/VYnx_lNtV2I/AAAAAAAAFiQ/R7Q_xKkNqog/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B10.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9XexNIweOR8/VYnx_lNtV2I/AAAAAAAAFiQ/R7Q_xKkNqog/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B10.jpg" width="352" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Log pile seen in back and east of film subject. Showing significant<br />
degradation from people walking across the logs.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Don't do anything to this big leaf maple. It provided the yellow color seen behind the subject in the film, and is likely 65+ years old. It can be identified as a young, spindly tree in good images from the PGF.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pqD0TJY-MwQ/VYnxhFXRwRI/AAAAAAAAFiI/lHu7SqyvZwU/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B16.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pqD0TJY-MwQ/VYnxhFXRwRI/AAAAAAAAFiI/lHu7SqyvZwU/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B16.jpg" width="352" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Big Leaf Maple on the Site.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
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<span style="text-align: left;">The sandbar is eroding around its edges. Some is caused by the creek and weather, but a lot of it is due to humans walking around. Do note the established trail up to the top of it from the creek, and avoid climbing on its edges if you can. Every step takes another few inches away from history.</span></div>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5n-nyQryzdI/VYn-tr1iGeI/AAAAAAAAFkc/4my-DVJoH-k/s1600/BCP%2Berosion%2B1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5n-nyQryzdI/VYn-tr1iGeI/AAAAAAAAFkc/4my-DVJoH-k/s640/BCP%2Berosion%2B1.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Natural erosion, caused by the creek, took down a major amount of sand and gravel at the crook in the creek near the first sighting spot.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
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<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-G66-_MOn4do/VYn-69MmQoI/AAAAAAAAFkk/_e25b-OLw-k/s1600/BCP%2Berosion%2B2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="360" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-G66-_MOn4do/VYn-69MmQoI/AAAAAAAAFkk/_e25b-OLw-k/s640/BCP%2Berosion%2B2.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
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Also... Don't Litter. Here's a measurement two-by-four that someone left behind. If you're wondering about our colored survey flags, we're done with those, and we'll be doing a more professional survey this summer, so we'll be removing all old flagging currently on the site other than a few trail markers.</div>
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<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_Xh07kqKH8c/VYn1SCMZ8XI/AAAAAAAAFkA/UtLgPCvlmg8/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B11.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_Xh07kqKH8c/VYn1SCMZ8XI/AAAAAAAAFkA/UtLgPCvlmg8/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B11.jpg" width="352" /></a></div>
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The previous year. Was it really necessary to destroy these gorgeous trees?<br />
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<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-S_l7asHhgms/VYnxQ20EvzI/AAAAAAAAFh4/05OvN04gMjo/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B12.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="360" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-S_l7asHhgms/VYnxQ20EvzI/AAAAAAAAFh4/05OvN04gMjo/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B12.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
Patty's trackway, up to frame 352. We've cleared dead and low-hanging branches somewhat, but we avoid taking out living trees and shrubs. Don't conduct major excavations here, or remove large quantities of the sand on the historic sandbar. That fine dark grey silt sand you find just beneath the forest duff is what Patty walked upon. It was put there by the major 1964 Flood. It, too, is part of the history.<br />
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<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TPbo1h5KCPE/VYnxaaY8KuI/AAAAAAAAFiA/CbwAk14JeeQ/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B17.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="360" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TPbo1h5KCPE/VYnxaaY8KuI/AAAAAAAAFiA/CbwAk14JeeQ/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B17.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
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<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Meh13TvSBl0/VYn0njtAcxI/AAAAAAAAFjQ/3ogRRc1oBh8/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B0.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="180" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Meh13TvSBl0/VYn0njtAcxI/AAAAAAAAFjQ/3ogRRc1oBh8/s320/BCP%2Bblog%2B0.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
BLUFF CREEK PROJECT,</div>
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
Technology in the Field. Low impact, high tech.<br />
<br />
For your own safety, be bear-aware and keep an eye out for mountain lions. We are monitoring these with our camera project. Please do not harm them, either.</div>
<br />
<br />
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<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-y857WSzJY9I/VYn0s1Tr6TI/AAAAAAAAFjY/BX5Ill6PZuI/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="180" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-y857WSzJY9I/VYn0s1Tr6TI/AAAAAAAAFjY/BX5Ill6PZuI/s320/BCP%2Bblog%2B1.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
You can read all about the film site on this blog. Just put "Bluff Creek into the search box here... <a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/">bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com</a><br /><br />
Visit the new <a href="http://bluffcreekproject.blogspot.com/">BLUFF CREEK PROJECT BLOG </a>here: <a href="http://bluffcreekproject.blogspot.com/">http://bluffcreekproject.blogspot.com/</a><br />Links to our YouTube page and the videos we've gotten of wildlife in the area and on the site are provided there.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-81a3Re7qwpY/VYn06TvGtgI/AAAAAAAAFjo/a3VRs1CMkxw/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B14.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-81a3Re7qwpY/VYn06TvGtgI/AAAAAAAAFjo/a3VRs1CMkxw/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B14.jpg" width="352" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Big Tree today, a massive old-growth Douglas fir.</td></tr>
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<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DYcXNfTw1yQ/VYn1JwrEWkI/AAAAAAAAFj4/JDFdUKc8HPg/s1600/BCP%2Bblog%2B15.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DYcXNfTw1yQ/VYn1JwrEWkI/AAAAAAAAFj4/JDFdUKc8HPg/s640/BCP%2Bblog%2B15.jpg" width="352" /></a></div>
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<a href="http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-famous-pattersongimlin-film-site.html">BIGFOOT EVIDENCE</a> blogged about this topic, based upon Jamie's piece on the Bluff Creek Project Blog. Go see the article and comment here: <a href="http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-famous-pattersongimlin-film-site.html">http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-famous-pattersongimlin-film-site.html </a><br />
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9KpzEr7j5QA/VYn7W-7ukvI/AAAAAAAAFkQ/k4JqVJ7l7ik/s1600/Me%2Band%2BJamie%2B2015.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9KpzEr7j5QA/VYn7W-7ukvI/AAAAAAAAFkQ/k4JqVJ7l7ik/s640/Me%2Band%2BJamie%2B2015.JPG" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Jamie and Me at the berm on the hill above the film site. Someone jumped the gun and declared the area a "Bigfoot World Heritage Site." These signs are entertaining, but the USFS doesn't really like them. Every year they appear around Bluff Creek, put up by unknown persons. Photo courtesy of Jamie S. and Bluff Creek Project Blog.</td></tr>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-62736512120497789052015-06-21T16:54:00.002-07:002015-06-23T15:17:12.692-07:00BLUFF CREEK COMPANY/RESORT Purchased by Yurok Tribe. Improvements to Be Made, Historic Company Store to Be Demolished.<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rxo5GoeidBU/VYdIkAtmMnI/AAAAAAAAFfo/d_NvQiFj0JQ/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BCompany%2BStore%2B2009.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="300" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rxo5GoeidBU/VYdIkAtmMnI/AAAAAAAAFfo/d_NvQiFj0JQ/s400/Bluff%2BCreek%2BCompany%2BStore%2B2009.JPG" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Bluff Creek Company Store, in 2009. Photo by Steven Streufert</td></tr>
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<b><span style="color: #990000;">BIGFOOT'S BLOG, NEWS FLASH, JUNE 21, 2015</span></b><br />
<b><span style="color: #990000;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="color: #990000;">(10-22-15, UPDATES BELOW)</span></b><br />
<br />
The <a href="https://www.facebook.com/BluffCreekProject?fref=ts"><b>BLUFF CREEK PROJECT</b> page on Facebook</a> just received notice from a friend that the historic spot at the bottom of the Bluff Creek watershed, once known as the Bluff Creek Company and lately known as the Bluff Creek Resort, has been purchased by the Yurok Tribe next door in Weitchpec, and is going to be redone for modern times. Unfortunately, the old store where Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin stopped for supplies, along with all the early Bigfooters, will be demolished. In the last few years the building has lost all of its historic signage and has begun to collapse in on itself.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-V5TA7LWim5s/VYdI3xyFK6I/AAAAAAAAFfw/pPIApDa93k4/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BResort%2BStore%2B1976.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="381" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-V5TA7LWim5s/VYdI3xyFK6I/AAAAAAAAFfw/pPIApDa93k4/s400/Bluff%2BCreek%2BResort%2BStore%2B1976.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Resort store as it appeared after gas pumps were added in 1976. <br />
Photo from Phil Smith, Sr. via Roger Knights.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Here's the message we received:<br />
<br />
Rollie Nelson, Jun 20th, 10:45pm<br />
<b>"Update bluff creek resort has been sold to the Yurok Tribe. </b><br />
<b>Expect improvements in services soon. </b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>The resort greatly will be improved over the next few years to meet a greater number of needs for the locals and the guests of the resort.</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>This will include but is not limited to: </b><br />
<b>improved river access via boat ramp. </b><br />
<b>Interpretative trails. Guided river tours. Rafting. Possible Ziplines. Fishing and bait supplies. Small engine repair basic service auto shop with tire changer. Fuel.</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>The store: The original structure of the historic bluff creek store is sadly a total loss due to years of neglect. Yurok tribe plans to demolish the old store and build a new store in its place. Heart breaking I know but too many years of neglect has made to structure totally unsalvagable.</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>The resort just changed hands on the eighteenth so please be patient with us and we will get bluff creek back on the map."</b><br />
<br />
Our reply:<br />
Bluff Creek Project, Sent by Steven Streufert, Jun 21st, 4:21pm<br />
<b>Rollie, thanks for the updates! We're pleased to hear that Mr. Smith has finally found a buyer, and a great local one at that. It's sad to hear about the final fate of the old historical store, though. If you have any more or any links you could share that would be greatly appreciated. </b><br />
<b>Thanks! Steve, Bigfoot Books, Willow Creek.</b><br />
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More photos from 2009. Keep in mind that the store structure has since fallen into total decreptitude. All photos following by Steven Streufert, save as noted.<br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3zf2MibQrFE/VYdJycp7xnI/AAAAAAAAFf4/uNiukbKri30/s1600/Me%2Bat%2BBluff%2BCreek%2BStore.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3zf2MibQrFE/VYdJycp7xnI/AAAAAAAAFf4/uNiukbKri30/s640/Me%2Bat%2BBluff%2BCreek%2BStore.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Myself with the poor old store, 2009, photo snapped by Craig Woolheater with my camera.</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-L9ZzRUTepsM/VYdKKwxHjZI/AAAAAAAAFgA/2XEDnkGT8_4/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BResort%2BFront%2B2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-L9ZzRUTepsM/VYdKKwxHjZI/AAAAAAAAFgA/2XEDnkGT8_4/s640/Bluff%2BCreek%2BResort%2BFront%2B2.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Another angle of view.</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vXD3HXCgFm8/VYdKY0PIJrI/AAAAAAAAFgI/cC-X9UqvIn0/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BResort%2BGas%2BPump.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vXD3HXCgFm8/VYdKY0PIJrI/AAAAAAAAFgI/cC-X9UqvIn0/s640/Bluff%2BCreek%2BResort%2BGas%2BPump.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The old gas pump platform with the now tall cedar tree Phil Smith's wife planted back in 1976.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-okekmVfCg7g/VYdKp8QPI5I/AAAAAAAAFgQ/eG6dQbWv8n0/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BResort%2BOffice.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-okekmVfCg7g/VYdKp8QPI5I/AAAAAAAAFgQ/eG6dQbWv8n0/s640/Bluff%2BCreek%2BResort%2BOffice.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Resort office, building still in nice shape.</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ijuJAZMSlSc/VYdK5L_oC9I/AAAAAAAAFgY/WqevEtT7GwA/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BResort%2BGreasy%2BSpoon.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ijuJAZMSlSc/VYdK5L_oC9I/AAAAAAAAFgY/WqevEtT7GwA/s640/Bluff%2BCreek%2BResort%2BGreasy%2BSpoon.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Ruins of the part of the old Greasy Spoon Restaurant, behind the store building.</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IjK8RJ2tLsI/VYdLjDI_L4I/AAAAAAAAFgg/lgdDapTkq0c/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BResort%2BStore%2Bfront.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IjK8RJ2tLsI/VYdLjDI_L4I/AAAAAAAAFgg/lgdDapTkq0c/s640/Bluff%2BCreek%2BResort%2BStore%2Bfront.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Members of the Believe-It Tour, Michael Esordi and Craig Woolheater, speak with the owner.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DX0MjNvn8mU/VYdN8RcOrwI/AAAAAAAAFgs/NtvZd-kTjv0/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BCompany%2BStore%2B2010.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="480" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DX0MjNvn8mU/VYdN8RcOrwI/AAAAAAAAFgs/NtvZd-kTjv0/s640/Bluff%2BCreek%2BCompany%2BStore%2B2010.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Here is the Company Store in 2010, missing its signs, and starting to collapse in the middle. I'll try to get you a current photo of it, as its condition is much worse today in 2015.</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qXbvsZ4D_3s/VYdR8BRFrtI/AAAAAAAAFg4/qcbBO3j_pM0/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BCompany%2BStore%2BMap.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="624" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qXbvsZ4D_3s/VYdR8BRFrtI/AAAAAAAAFg4/qcbBO3j_pM0/s640/Bluff%2BCreek%2BCompany%2BStore%2BMap.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Here is the location, "X" marking the spot of the BCCS. Just north is the Bluff Creek Road. Right at where the bridge crosses Bluff at top one may see the now closed old, wiggly Bluff Creek Road segment that the old-timers used.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
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View Roger Knights' Photobucket collection of old photos, along with notes from Phil Smith Sr., the owner of the Bluff Creek Resort at its end, here:<br />
<a href="http://s7.photobucket.com/user/RogerKni/library/BF%20BCCS%20Photos?sort=6&page=1">http://s7.photobucket.com/user/RogerKni/library/BF%20BCCS%20Photos?sort=6&page=1</a></div>
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<br />
See my previous blog posts about the BLUFF CREEK COMPANY here:<br />
<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/search?q=bluff+creek+company">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/search?q=bluff+creek+company</a><br /><br />
<span style="color: #990000;"><b>UPDATES, </b><b>10-22-15</b><b>!!</b></span><br />
"Rollie Nelson<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>6:32pm Jun 21<br />
<b>I'm pushing to have the new store at least appear simular to the old store.</b><br />
<b>I've got a little support in this due to the simple fact that we want the business to succeed.</b><br />
<b>P.S. I think you might actually know the new manager at bluff creek. He is Ross Nelson formerly of the "Ray's" butcher shop in Hoopa.</b><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span><br />
Rollie Nelson<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>6:48pm Jun 21<br />
<b>The facilities at the resort are quite a bit dilapidated. That being said the tribe will need time in the resort will have to be rebuilt almost in it's entirety we are planning on doing this in stages so that the long term residents that are staying will not gave there lives totally disrupted. </b><br />
<b>There are security issues that need to be addressed. </b><br />
<b>The f---ing electric system is a f---ing nightmare. </b><br />
<b>The gas system needs inspection. </b><br />
<b>There are two individuals that have lived there eight years and they are fighting eviction. They have tons of tweaker junk piles in the old store the old shop and the small house between the shop and the store. They are slinging meth right in front of the resort. These things are just a few of the issues working against us at Another update...</b><br />
Rollie Nelson June 21 at 10:05pm<br />
<b>Ross Nelson my brother is the new manager he does not have internet yet but that should change as soon as physically possible. The tribal website has not been updated and I don't know when that will happen. While there are a few issues to be resolved the resort is currently open. We have great hope for the new Bluff Creek resort. And we hope you all enjoy the improvements to come.".<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span></b>Rollie Nelson<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>6:50pm Jun 21<br />
<b>Internet will be up at </b><b>Bluff Creek</b><b> soon and then my sister in law will be all about the facebook updates</b><br />
Rollie Nelson, June 21 at 10:05pm<br />
<b>Ross Nelson my brother is the new manager he does not have internet yet but that should change as soon as physically possible. The tribal website has not been updated and I don't know when that will happen. While there are a few issues to be resolved the resort is currently open. We have great hope for the new bluff creek resort. And we hope you all enjoy the improvements to come."<br /></b><br />
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<b><b>Tweakers at Bluff Creek?? Uh oh!</b></b></div>
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<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gPB110adeyc/VYdHrQZ8BtI/AAAAAAAAFfg/2ETLcF2wn10/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gPB110adeyc/VYdHrQZ8BtI/AAAAAAAAFfg/2ETLcF2wn10/s1600/ANGRY%2BBIGFOOT.gif" /></a><b>Happy Summer Solstice to All!</b><br />
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****************************************************<br />
This blog is copyright and all that jazz, save for occasional small
elements borrowed for "research" and information or satirical purposes
only, 2007-2015, Bigfoot Books and Steven Streufert. Borrowings for
non-commercial purposes will be tolerated without the revenge of Angry
Bigfoot, if notification, credit, citation and a kindly web-link are
given, preferably after contacting us and saying, Hello, like a normal
person would before taking a cup of salt. No serious rip-offs of our
material for vulgar commercial gain will be tolerated without major BF
stomping action coming down on you, hu-man.<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-17225620206001756692015-06-10T16:45:00.003-07:002015-06-22T16:07:11.148-07:00Corrections and Clarifications to Peter Byrne's Patterson-Gimlin Film Site and Bluff Creek Map<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<span style="color: #990000;"><b>BIGFOOT'S BLOG, EARLY JUNE, 2015 EDITION</b></span><br />
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Here are some corrections and clarifications I had to make to Peter Byrne's ridiculous PGF Film Site/Bluff Creek map (from his 1976 book, "The Search for Big Foot") so that some sense could be made of it. I think Byrne was intentionally obfuscating the location to keep it to himself. What other explanation can there be? Also, I interviewed him a while back (<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/brief-conversations-regarding-bluff.html">HERE</a>) before we found the PGF site, and his directions to the location were quite far downstream from the actual spot. It is stuff like this that made it difficult for us to relocate the site. Distances are totally deceptive in the Byrne map. Actually, it's one mile from the first bridge to the second, and then three miles up the creek to the film site.<br />
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Click to Enlarge. Left to right, Byrne 1976, USFS 1974, USFS 1952<br />
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<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GoFonq1u5Qc/VXjIKg-tUvI/AAAAAAAAFd8/gAUunpFRFkE/s1600/Byrne%2BMap%2BCompare%2B2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="404" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GoFonq1u5Qc/VXjIKg-tUvI/AAAAAAAAFd8/gAUunpFRFkE/s640/Byrne%2BMap%2BCompare%2B2.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
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Here is the Byrne map by itself, from his out-of-print book.</div>
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CLICK IMAGES TO ENLARGE THEM</div>
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<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-V46pLPm1bMU/VXjIpJV5oeI/AAAAAAAAFeA/WSbBk0nejJQ/s1600/Byrne%2BBluff_Creek_Map.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-V46pLPm1bMU/VXjIpJV5oeI/AAAAAAAAFeA/WSbBk0nejJQ/s640/Byrne%2BBluff_Creek_Map.JPG" width="414" /></a></div>
Here are the other two maps, the earlier one first. Note the location of "Ferris Camp" is the PGF site. "McDuff Camp" was at the location of the current bridge over Bluff Creek, one mile up from Louse Camp. We think that this is where Patterson and Gimlin camped, just up the creek a ways from the road, according to what Bob Gimlin told me in Yakima last year. "We got to the bottom of the road, where it meets the creek, and then we just crossed the creek. It was right there," Bob said. Right there across the creek would have been over a ford at that point, as there was no bridge there at the time. The ford would have crossed over the creek and headed upstream on a jeep trail grade road that went along the creek all the way past the film site back then.<br />
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<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mq6ZxqNtm84/VXjJcnbX9KI/AAAAAAAAFeM/HyUEay273nQ/s1600/BLUFF%2BCREEK%2BOrleans_1952.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mq6ZxqNtm84/VXjJcnbX9KI/AAAAAAAAFeM/HyUEay273nQ/s640/BLUFF%2BCREEK%2BOrleans_1952.jpg" width="440" /></a></div>
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<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VCvearGxbGU/VXjKur4Y-oI/AAAAAAAAFec/G7qi8TuJW48/s1600/Byrne%2BPeter.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"></a><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wx2RJUd1c4Q/VXjLslmYhOI/AAAAAAAAFek/Q4RlETxkaQw/s1600/Byrne%2BBook%2B2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; display: inline !important; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wx2RJUd1c4Q/VXjLslmYhOI/AAAAAAAAFek/Q4RlETxkaQw/s1600/Byrne%2BBook%2B2.jpg" /></a> <a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Rr9neGz8AhA/VXjL5L-D_tI/AAAAAAAAFes/5-_pjTpZHFw/s1600/Byrne%2BBook%2B1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; display: inline !important; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="200" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Rr9neGz8AhA/VXjL5L-D_tI/AAAAAAAAFes/5-_pjTpZHFw/s200/Byrne%2BBook%2B1.jpg" width="130" /></a><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VCvearGxbGU/VXjKur4Y-oI/AAAAAAAAFec/G7qi8TuJW48/s1600/Byrne%2BPeter.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="200" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VCvearGxbGU/VXjKur4Y-oI/AAAAAAAAFec/G7qi8TuJW48/s200/Byrne%2BPeter.jpg" width="183" /></a></div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-38992985431565732592015-01-15T14:49:00.001-08:002015-01-15T14:57:05.071-08:00New BLUFF CREEK PROJECT Trail Camera Results, On the News, New Funding Drive, and More<b><span style="color: #990000;">BIGFOOT'S BLOG,</span></b><b><span style="color: #990000;">Mid-January 2015 Edition</span></b><br />
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<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GGIqIUI7jsc/VLg6leI-FGI/AAAAAAAAFa0/_pcYLFmuYkc/s1600/Ringtail%2BBluff.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GGIqIUI7jsc/VLg6leI-FGI/AAAAAAAAFa0/_pcYLFmuYkc/s1600/Ringtail%2BBluff.jpg" height="360" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Image of a Ringtail from Twin Lakes, just east of Bluff Creek.</td></tr>
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<b>BLUFF CREEK PROJECT</b>, an extension of our former <b><a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/news-flash-bluff-creek-film-site.html">BLUFF CREEK FILM SITE PROJECT</a></b>, has a new set of Winter 2014-15 wildlife results from the cameras at one of the ridge lakes above Bluff Creek itself. The actual watershed of Bluff is closed during the winter by the USFS, but our cameras are still down there running until late Spring when we hope to return. See below for the latest videos, plus the previous ones from Summer 2014 and earlier.<br />
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The Project is running another funding drive for the expensive lithium battery replacement and maintenance of our some 20 cameras currently deployed. From Jamie Wayne, head of trail camera deployment:<br />
<br />
"I just launched the Winter crowdfunding drive so we can get some new batteries for the cams. Please sponsor a camera! Only $12! We need to start getting ready to service the cameras in the spring. I just used the last our lithium batteries to keep our Reconyx going for another 3 months."<span style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.3999996185303px; line-height: 20px;"></span><br />
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Check here at Indiegogo for information and to contribute to this public research project: <a href="http://igg.me/at/BluffCreekProjectWinter2015/x/1011896">http://igg.me/at/BluffCreekProjectWinter2015/x/1011896</a><br />
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<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZO1cV81G7fk/VLhCp-r5qoI/AAAAAAAAFbQ/NYAO7YYgbvM/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BProject%2BLogo.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZO1cV81G7fk/VLhCp-r5qoI/AAAAAAAAFbQ/NYAO7YYgbvM/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BProject%2BLogo.jpg" height="400" width="345" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Bluff Creek Project Logo, art by Wes Losner</td></tr>
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JUST UP, a <b>new blog/website</b> for the Project, still under construction:<br />
<a href="http://bluffcreekproject.blogspot.com/">http://bluffcreekproject.blogspot.com/</a><br />
<br />
Find <b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/BluffCreekProject">BLUFF CREEK PROJECT</a></b> on Facebook here:<br />
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/BluffCreekProject">https://www.facebook.com/BluffCreekProject</a><br />
<br />
Also, local Humboldt/Northcoast NBC television news featured the Project the other day, here:<br />
<a href="http://kiem-tv.com/video/rare-ringtail-cat-other-animals-captured-trail-footage">http://kiem-tv.com/video/rare-ringtail-cat-other-animals-captured-trail-footage</a><br />
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<b><span style="color: #990000;">HERE ARE THE VIDEOS...</span></b><br />
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Current highlights:<br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/uVGDd9-TEdw" width="560"></iframe><br />
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A kinky bear:<br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Y2pidj4hljQ" width="560"></iframe>
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Past highlights:<br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/jwv4ol-2RSM" width="560"></iframe>
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Fabulous bears at Twin Lakes:
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qQ-SadB_kAQ" width="560"></iframe><br />
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Summer 2014 on the PGF Site:
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/E_bPanZFoWc" width="560"></iframe><br />
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Animals at the "Altar" at the MK Site:
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Pox8BmqbmFo" width="560"></iframe><br />
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Three Mountain Lions!:
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/IboZbCKPtCs" width="560"></iframe><br />
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A Cat on Patty's Trackway:
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bDs5zYGTyWQ" width="560"></iframe>
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Thanks to all who have joined us in <b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/BluffCreekProject">BLUFF CREEK PROJECT</a></b> by contributing, joining us in Six Rivers National Forest, or just by sharing links to our posts here and on Facebook!</div>
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<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jDTW6_TgLgc/VLhB--7JDnI/AAAAAAAAFbE/E-f_a5q6wkk/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BProject%2BTeam%2BJan.%2B2015.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jDTW6_TgLgc/VLhB--7JDnI/AAAAAAAAFbE/E-f_a5q6wkk/s1600/Bluff%2BCreek%2BProject%2BTeam%2BJan.%2B2015.jpg" height="480" width="640" /></a></div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-34183713710549680692014-06-03T17:37:00.000-07:002014-06-03T17:37:25.390-07:00What Constitutes a Bigfoot-Sasquatch Encounter? <div style="background-color: #000017; border: medium none; color: #e3dcff; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20.285999298095703px;">
<strong><span style="color: #cc0000;">Was That a BIGFOOT-SASQUATCH ENCOUNTER, or What???</span></strong></div>
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<strong><span style="color: #cc0000;">Experiences, under the Microscope....<br /><br />(This is an archival post from 2010, here selected from a longer old one and republished. Some views of mine seen here may be outdated now. A few small edits have been made.)</span></strong></div>
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<em>"Twenty-four hours a day I have doubts--it drives me crazy. But the Sasquatch business is so intriguing that I can't give it up, come hell or high water. I've sunk so much time and effort in it now that I must go on searching. Besides, above all else, I want to know the answer. In the Sasquatch business you have to be crazy or dedicated. On one side you have all the big scientists in the world, the game biologists, the press and all the so-called sane people. And on the other side you have a nut like me. But look at it this way--once upon a time scientists didn't believe the world was round or that man would get to the moon."</em></div>
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--Rene Dahinden, BF Researcher, 1973 (from a newspaper article, recently posted on <a href="http://bigfoottimes.net/" style="color: #6572ff; text-decoration: none;">bigfoottimes.net</a>)</div>
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“They’re shaking their heads at me, and I’m shakin’ my head at them. It’s REAL, end of story.”</em></div>
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--James "Bobo" Fay, California BF Researcher, BFRO Member</div>
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For those of us who have not had an undeniable, irrefutable, face-to-face sighting of the large, hairy, cryptid hominoid, it is sometimes difficult to be utterly and absolutely sure of ourselves when it comes to Bigfoot. We ourselves, despite all of this time looking into the phenomenon, and hearing endless reports from witnesses, there is always the nagging possibility that we or they are, perhaps, just crazy after all. Why believe in something that we cannot absolutely prove, something we can't just go out and necessarily find if we want to? Could it be that this whole thing was born from a joke, and perhaps has continued all of these decades simply as a congregate collection of misperceptions and hallucinations combining with myth and legend generated by the popular media? Well, we think maybe not; but we strive endlessly to be sure of things as we proceed as we ever do off into the realms of the unknown and the great Mysteries of the world, of the mind, of being itself. </div>
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What follows are some preliminary thoughts we hope will lead to a larger paper on Blobsquatching. We'll look at our own possible Bigfoot encounters, from the obviously false fleeting visions to more suggestive and convincing experiences that cannot just be explained away.</div>
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Recently someone we know fairly well claimed a face-to-face encounter with a Bigfoot up in the Trinity County mountains. At a distance of about 30 feet he stood before one and even says he spoke to it. The encounter lasted about two minutes before the creature (described as being much more like a man-like Neanderthal than an ape) turned and retreated back into the woods. Now, we wish we could have such an extended encounter. It would provide so many answers, as it has for this witness who no longer feels the need to prove that the Sasquatch exists. However, how can we, personally, know for sure? Maybe it was a tall tale, a lie, a self-delusion? None of these options seem, to us, very likely, considering the man reporting it. The witness seems very sincere and sane. But, despite it all, the lingering questions of the human mind and perception and individual differences and motivations persist.</div>
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Even if we see such a thing ourselves, are there not some doubts that can remain about our own perceptual processes? Many who have seen a Bigfoot report a confusion of their previous reality systems, some even questioning their own minds and sanity. Sometimes there is even a feeling of having been somehow cursed or hexed--so great is the shock to the psychological system--a phenomenon especially notable in the old Native American recountings (see the book, <em>Raincoast Sasquatch</em> for examples). Others become serious true believers and advocates for the cause of Bigfoot, and spend their lives in pursuit of another encounter.</div>
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Not to get too close to issues of "multi-dimensionality" and mystical propositions (which are better left alone when one is trying to <em>prove</em> something), we think it can clearly be said that there is something powerfully strange about Bigfoot encounters, that somehow they exist outside of not only our known sense of the world, but also trigger a part of the mind with which we are fairly unfamiliar. Sighting encounters are not usually "normal" in the sense in which we see an elk or a bear. There is something odd about them, it seems, that triggers not only our vision but also something in the mind that is ambiguous, unclear, and yet deeply powerful. Confusion and conviction can occur at once, throwing the normal control we have over our own minds and reality somewhat into doubt. Also, how do we account for the differences in perceptions, even within the category of "Class A" sightings? How can one person see an ape, and another see some kind of proto-human cave man? And what is the real difference? Obviously, our perceptions are based not only on raw input, but in large part are formed of individual perspectives and interpretive biases.</div>
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<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HRiGgliTOzc/S-nTB-IZtfI/AAAAAAAACMs/pXgfohNSHiI/s1600/Legend+Bigfoot+3.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; color: #6572ff; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-decoration: none;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HRiGgliTOzc/S-nTB-IZtfI/AAAAAAAACMs/pXgfohNSHiI/s320/Legend+Bigfoot+3.jpg" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039) 1px 1px 5px; background: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: none; box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039) 1px 1px 5px; padding: 8px; position: relative;" tt="true" /></a>Before we get into our own experiences, we'd like to note the <a href="http://bfro.net/GDB/classify.asp#classification" style="color: #6572ff; text-decoration: none;">classification system devised by the BFRO</a>. BFRO uses "Class A," "Class B," and "Class C" categories to divide the most convincing reports from those that are merely suggestive, second hand or historical. To summarize, we quote in part:</div>
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"<strong>Class A</strong> reports involve clear sightings in circumstances where misinterpretation or misidentification of other animals can be ruled out with greater confidence. ... Incidents where a possible sasquatch was observed at a great distance or in poor lighting conditions and incidents in any other circumstance that did not afford a clear view of the subject are considered <strong>Class B</strong> reports. ... Most second-hand reports, and any third-hand reports, or stories with an untraceable sources, are considered <strong>Class C</strong>, because of the high potential for inaccuracy."</div>
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To these we would like to add our own somewhat humorous classes: "<strong>Class D</strong>" and "<strong>Class F</strong>," as well as "<strong>Class X</strong>." In our proposed Class D category would fit any indeterminate experience that though not fully known <em>could</em> have been a Bigfoot encounter. Often, an experience in this realm can FEEL like a Class A encounter to the experiencer; but because that thing falling to the forest floor could have been an acorn falling from a tree, and not something thrown by a Sasquatch, we have to be circumspect in our assumptions and reactions. This would also have to apply to unidentified animal calls heard out in the spooky hills at night. Though we have pretty convincing sound recordings that we think might be Bigfoot-originated, we just can't say they are so without some corollary evidence such as footprints or a sighting of the creature actually vocalizing or wood-knocking.<br />
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<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HRiGgliTOzc/S-nTKOHQUAI/AAAAAAAACM0/sHlNLT15-uI/s1600/Legend+Bigfoot+2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; color: #6572ff; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-decoration: none;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HRiGgliTOzc/S-nTKOHQUAI/AAAAAAAACM0/sHlNLT15-uI/s320/Legend+Bigfoot+2.jpg" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039) 1px 1px 5px; background: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: none; box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039) 1px 1px 5px; padding: 8px; position: relative;" tt="true" /></a>In Class F we would group all of those that are obvious hallucinations, products of inner mental problems of the witness, or hoaxes (such as anything seen in the presence of Tom Biscardi). In Class X we would group all experiences that are just plain "weird," that seemed perhaps hyper-real to the witness, but may include unknown factors of reality and perception that would otherwise be termed "metaphysical" or "paranormal." We distinguish these from the sequential lettering simply because we in no way would like to deny that they happen and that they may be "real" in a way we just cannot currently comprehend. Many things we now consider as having the "X-factor" may indeed someday be proven scientifically, and may become part of our ordinary reality. For current science, proceeding as it does by incremental induction, experiment and hypothesis, these things are just simply out-of-category. They do not help to prove anything, and there is little if anything in them that is verifiable or repeatable for analysis. That does not mean they are not happening, and in some way "real." (And that does not mean there is anything wrong with science--that is the way it is <em>supposed</em> to work.)</div>
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It might be helpful at this point to quote <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke's_three_laws" style="color: #6572ff; text-decoration: none;">Arthur C. Clarke's three "laws" of prediction</a>, from his essay, "<em>Hazards of Prophecy: The Failure of Imagination</em>":</div>
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<em>1.When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is probably wrong.</em></div>
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<em>2.The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.</em></div>
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<em>3.Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.</em></div>
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Or, as Sci-Fi writer, Larry Niven, put it in corollary to the last point, <em>"Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."</em><br />
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<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HRiGgliTOzc/S-nTRoWd_dI/AAAAAAAACM8/ox9aihpKfEs/s1600/Legend+Bigfoot+Shirts.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; color: #6572ff; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-decoration: none;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HRiGgliTOzc/S-nTRoWd_dI/AAAAAAAACM8/ox9aihpKfEs/s320/Legend+Bigfoot+Shirts.jpg" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039) 1px 1px 5px; background: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: none; box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039) 1px 1px 5px; padding: 8px; position: relative;" tt="true" /></a>We have seen "Bigfoot," along with a whole lot of other strange monsters, many times. That is, while driving for 12 hours through the night--one's mind and eyes tend to grow tired or bored, and strange forms begin to appear. Once we thought we saw a man in a white shirt walking in the highway--it turned out to be a plastic grocery bag blowing in the wind. We've "seen" many a Bigfoot standing in the tree-line, or moving in the shadows, or even in the middle of the road. We've also seen demons, aliens and very large white rabbits. Obviously, all of these are almost certainly "Class F" in nature. Though one could have been a Bigfoot, we seriously doubt any were. And it does little good for us to say or assume so, besides.</div>
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A few times we have gone out into the woods with people from out of town, and we found that sometimes just a nut falling from a tree or a deer moving in the brush is enough to raise the pulse and get these folks believing that Bigfoot are everywhere. This is a known condition: <strong><em>SQUATCH-ON-THE-BRAIN</em>;</strong> or as we term it,"<em>Squatchlucination,</em>" where the desire to see a Bigfoot overrides the natural perceptual and interpretive skepticism and gives rise to monsters from the <em><strong>Goblin Universe </strong></em>(as Dr. John Napier termed it). </div>
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<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HRiGgliTOzc/S-nTXK-n6mI/AAAAAAAACNE/i4hQHJEX0EU/s1600/Legend+Bigfoot+Elfin+Glen.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; color: #6572ff; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-decoration: none;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HRiGgliTOzc/S-nTXK-n6mI/AAAAAAAACNE/i4hQHJEX0EU/s320/Legend+Bigfoot+Elfin+Glen.jpg" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039) 1px 1px 5px; background: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: none; box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039) 1px 1px 5px; padding: 8px; position: relative;" tt="true" /></a>If one lives in a natural, forested area long enough one learns just how many strange noises and creatures are out there in the night. When we first moved to Willow Creek we found ourselves hearing the horrible shrieks of demons in the hills at night. These turned out to be foxes, however horrifying within the imagination. One night the most horrible screams were heard, complete with horrid thrashing about in the brush. Though it was one of the most deeply terrifying sounds we've ever heard come from an animal, it turned out to be two raccoons fighting (or mating?). Go figure. There are owls, doves, squirrels, coyotes, deer, bear, woodpeckers, and so many other beings that make noises that could be construed as Bigfoot. One has to learn to rule these out. Now when we hear such sounds while outside on our porch we don't even jump; though we do listen closely, if not to see Bigfoot then to understand what interesting things are living out there, or maybe to see a mountain lion or a bear. We have seen both of the latter on our own dirt road recently. However, there are other things that just don't fit into these "Class D" boxes.</div>
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There are much better cases that are very convincing, even though they fall just short of an actual sighting. Here is how we wrote about our own very close, non-sighting "encounter" with something big and wild in our very own backyard, June, 2008. We can't explain it at all, save with the Sasquatch hypothesis (though we have to admit it could just as easily have been a Purple People Eater). We live at the top of <b>[excised for personal security after threats of violence against this blogger, July 3, 2011]</b>, in a [excision] at the dead end of the road, near the top of the [excision] Ridge which is [excision] from Brush Mountain Lookout's ridge and Friday Ridge Road to the [excision]. There have been numerous recent Bigfoot incidents reported out there lately....</div>
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<em>"In the dark of late night/early morning something came down the hillside up from my cabin. Sitting smoking out on my enclosed porch I thought at first it was just another deer coming to eat my lettuce and chili peppers. I heard what sounded like a tripping sound in the brush, some big thing making a crack and crunch in the underbrush, followed by three distinct bipedal "whump, whump, WHUMP" footfalls. These were very heavy, thunderous things, to the degree that I could feel the concrete under my feet on the porch firmly vibrate about 30 yards away from the creature. This was followed by a heavy crash of something falling into the brush below. This was no bear, sure wasn’t a deer—I’ve seen and heard these critters up on my road. And if human it would have had to have been an incredibly big or obese man. And why would a big human be out walking around in the dark, dead end, dirt road mountainside, middle-of-nowhere woods at nearly three in the morning? I tried to observe it, but it crept back into the woods a little ways beyond the porch light, and then did not move at all. It did not flee farther. </em><br />
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<em>My flashlight was inadequate in power and batteries to pursue or see it. I stood there at the edge of the woods for about 15 minutes waiting for any sound or sign. None. I didn't want to pursue and scare it off, or get eaten by whatever it was. Then I decided to duck back into the cabin where I could continue listening and looking without being seen. I knew it was still out there. Once inside for a few moments I heard movement, as the thing went down into the neighboring vacant house’s yard. Through the open window I heard two under-the-breath grunting sounds, something like a bear’s growl crossed with a pig’s snort. Quickly outside I was once again unable to spot anything. The next day I saw a depression in the weeds where the thing had fallen down. There were two further depressions in the plants that looked a lot like big footprints. I could see some metal pipe and wooden construction debris under the herbage where the thing had apparently gotten hung up. Whatever it was I cannot say; and whatever it was it was very big, and incredibly sly. It escaped into the dark of night without another trace, but its impact upon the ground and upon me was undeniable. For what it’s worth, it FELT like a sasquatch.”</em><br />
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As is often said: Examine the Witness, not just what was witnessed. Examine yourself and your own perceptions and thoughts.<br />
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Here is a clip of ourselves on the FINDING BIGFOOT show, talking about our own experience. Of course, it's been highly edited. They took out, for instance, the part where we said, "I don't know what it was." Oh well....<br />
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Angry Bigfoot SHALL return.</div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-60091203957105892992014-05-09T14:22:00.001-07:002014-05-09T14:22:54.122-07:00New Funding Drive for the Bluff Creek Trail Camera Project, 2014<h3>
Here is the new season's funding drive for the BLUFF CREEK TRAIL CAMERA PROJECT. Check in now and help get more cameras in the field at the greatest, most famous Bigfoot hotspot in the world. This is a publicly-funded research project. You can be part of it.</h3>
<a href="https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bluff-creek-trail-camera-project">https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bluff-creek-trail-camera-project</a><div>
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(What follows is copied from the Indiegogo page. Click the link above to go to the real page for the project.)<br /><div>
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Bluff Creek Trail Camera Project</h1>
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This campaign is for raising money to get trail cameras down at the Patterson-Gimlin Film site in Bluff Creek.</div>
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<span style="box-sizing: border-box;"><strong style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span style="color: cyan;">This is the official crowd-funding page for the Bluff Creek Project's trail camera survey of Bluff Creek.</span></strong></span></div>
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<span style="color: cyan;"><b style="box-sizing: border-box;">Summer 2014 update: <br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />4-27-2014</b></span></div>
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<span style="color: cyan;">This is the Summer 2014 crowdfunding campaign for the Bluff Creek Project. Right now we have 20 trail cameras looking for Bigfoot down in the Bluff Creek drainage including six at the Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot film site. Right now we are focusing on getting Batteries and Bear boxes for the cameras. Twenty cameras is alot to service right now. Each camera takes 8-12 Lithium batteries which we buy in bulk. I thought we should do two crowdfunding campaigns this summer to give people a chance to come down there with us. Also this year we are trying to minimize our footprint down on the creek. We hope to have fewer trips that are less invasive. We now have a good trail cut down to the creek so we don't have to go boonie-crashing anymore. The cameras themselves are better camouflaged as well to minimize any interaction with the wildlife. </span></div>
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<span style="color: cyan;"><strong style="box-sizing: border-box;">New target budget:<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /></strong>20 cameras X 12 AA batteries at $1.00 per battery is $240<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />7 bear boxes X $35 each is $245<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />12 bottles of 2014 Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot Barleywine X $2 bottle is $24<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />For a grand total of $509<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />Our first service is in the beginning of June where we will check the cameras that have been soaking for seven months. We will have an August and September expedition as well to take people down to the film site and see where the Bigfoot walked. We can also guide people down there in exchange for donations to the project. We run on gasoline, beer, and good food. This is a not-for-profit venture and we are just trying to get some pictures these 9' tall apes/people to people report seeing down there. <br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />We would also like to get some more higher-end 12mp cameras to replace our older 5mp cameras. The new cams are about $200 each, which is about $300 with an SD card, bear box, and lithium batteries.<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><strong style="box-sizing: border-box;">More updates coming soon! <br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />Summer 2013 update:</strong>Please help us get some trail cameras down at the PG film Site! We need some help getting cams to put down at the film site. We have six already but we need a few more to cover the creek and downstream by the bridge. This is a not-for-profit operation and all footage is open-source and not covered by complicated copyrights and NDAs. We are sick of the other projects holding out on their footage for documentaries or copyright issues. We will immediately release the footage for all to enjoy. If we all work together and get the cams down at the creek we have a real chance of getting a Bigfoot on camera. <br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />This is not for our personal gain or status, it is just for pure science. These cameras take an HD video of anything that moves down there and run all year long 24/7. They are silent and have their lights filtered so they are practically undetectable. </span></div>
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<span style="color: cyan;"><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />If any donors want to go visit the site we will take you there. We have a trip planned in late August after Bigfoot days, a couple in September and one in October. If you help out with the project we will cook you some awesome dinner and breakfast at camp and guide you down to the film site. <br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />I understand that we all have differing opinions on the nature of Bigfoot, but we can't let these get in the way of genuine research. We welcome all types of assistance and help with our work. <strong style="box-sizing: border-box;"><strong style="box-sizing: border-box;"><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />About the project:</strong><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /></strong>The Bluff Creek Project is an open-source volunteer project initially formed to locate the original Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot film site. It consists of several project contributors who volunteered their time and gas money to complete the mountains of field work needed to confirm the site's location. We have been researching the area formally on foot since 2009. Recently, during the summer of 2011, we successfully located the original film site and completed a detailed survey of the surviving monuments and trees. This survey has been an enormous contribution to the Bigfoot research community and can now be used to exact dimensional data from the film and make accurate measurement of the creature's pathway and size.<strong style="box-sizing: border-box;"><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><strong style="box-sizing: border-box;">Trail camera survey:</strong><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /></strong>The trail camera project was launched in July of 2012, and successfully raised enough money to purchase four high-end trail cameras. We committed all of our personal trail cameras to the project as well, for a total of nine cameras installed at the site. The cameras were installed in late October 2012 on the 45th anniversary of the film. The cameras spent seven months in total down at the film site, capturing the movements of Bluff Creek's inhabitants. We had a few camera failures, but all of the newly purchased cameras performed flawlessly.</span></div>
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We have learned many lessons and fought several battles to pull off the project. We captured hundreds of videos of bears, deer, and a cougar. I hope to publish a small research paper containing the findings and data after the completion of a total of one year of deployment of the cameras. We think that the summer and fall months are the most active for the area and wish to include them in the paper. After all, "Patty" was filmed in the PGF in late October, with reported activity preceding that in August, yet we didn't install the cameras until late October.<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><strong style="box-sizing: border-box;">What we need:</strong></div>
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We would like to continue the trail camera project over the winter of 2013/2014, and have a few needs for our continued success. We would like to raise enough money to purchase a couple new cameras, some bear-safe camera housings, and fresh batteries for the other cameras we currently have. We had amazing success with the 2012 Bushnell Trophy Cam, and wish to purchase new 2013 models.<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><strong style="box-sizing: border-box;">A list of their features can be viewed here:</strong><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><a href="http://www.bushnell.com/" rel="nofollow" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none;">http://bushnell.com</a><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><strong style="box-sizing: border-box;">The current price on Amazon.com for all items needed is:</strong><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />$223.35 - Trophy can HD Max<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />$31.99 - Bear box for cameras<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />$20.37 - 32gb SD memory card<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />$22.99 - 12pk of Energizer lithium batteries<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />We intend this trail camera survey to be an open-source project, where all media and data is published immediately after collection for all the world to see. The main problem with similar camera projects is that all media and data is subject to strict non-disclosure agreements and stipulations. This is to protect any cash value associated with a potential Bigfoot image or video. We believe as a team that the commercialization of such a project is fundamentally unscientific. As a premise for the camera project we will practice full transparency during the entirety of the project. All videos and photos of any note will be published immediately after they are collected. They will be offered freely on the internet for non-commercial use for anyone who wants to use them for their own research. Any commercial use of the videos that results in a cash profit will be invested back into the Bluff Creek Project for use in the next season’s efforts.<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />While the subject of Bigfoot is quite controversial, it is still an enigma that captures the interest of people worldwide. The possible existence of such a creature is highly debated and subjected to constant skepticism from all sides. It is our opinion that if Bigfoot exists it is a physical, biological animal, and not paranormal in nature. Any animal that is real can be photographed and caught on video. Modern trail cameras are very high resolution and can take clear HD video of any animal that triggers the sensor. Such cameras have proven to be a valuable asset to any biological study of rare animals.<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />Contributors making sizable donations covering whole units will have the option of receiving back the used camera unit after this coming winter of 2013-2014. It is, however, encouraged that you contribute the camera to next year’s project. We will ship the camera to you after June 2013 when we retrieve the cameras. Any leftover cameras and materials will be put to use for the next overwinter season. There is of course the possibility that the camera will be damaged or stolen during the course of its use. This is unlikely due to the remoteness of the area and the roads being closed for the duration of the winter.<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />All contributors will have their name cited in the accompanying summary paper of the project. If you wish to remain anonymous please indicate so in a private message.<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" /><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" />We also will be accepting physical donations of equipment and gear. Please contact one of the members of the project if you have some equipment to offer. We could use some old trail cameras, audio recorders, night-vision, binoculars, video cameras, etc. All donations are non-refundable. We do not expect an image of a Bigfoot creature as a result of this project (though that would be great!). We do however expect lots of HD video of local wildlife including bears, deer, elk, and cougar.</div>
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Team</div>
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<li style="box-sizing: border-box; list-style: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><a class="i-photo" href="https://www.indiegogo.com/individuals/1011896" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #eb1478; float: left; text-decoration: none;"><img alt="20120810113025-stringio" src="https://images.indiegogo.com/individuals/1011896/pictures/thumbnail/20120810113025-stringio.txt?1344623449" style="border-bottom-left-radius: 45px; border-bottom-right-radius: 45px; border-top-left-radius: 45px; border-top-right-radius: 45px; border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; height: 90px; vertical-align: middle; width: 90px;" /></a><div class="i-info" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-left: 110px; margin-top: 10px;">
<a class="i-name" href="https://www.indiegogo.com/individuals/1011896" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; font-family: 'Benton Sans Medium', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; letter-spacing: 0px; line-height: 26px; margin-bottom: 20px; text-decoration: none;">Jamie Schutmutt</a><div class="i-role" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 12px; font-style: italic; line-height: 18px;">
editor</div>
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<span class="currency currency-xlarge" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span style="box-sizing: border-box;">$24</span><span style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; font-size: 16px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 26px; margin-left: 5px;">USD</span></span></div>
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RAISED OF <span class="currency" style="box-sizing: border-box;">$509</span> GOAL</div>
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<div class="i-percent" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; float: left; font-family: 'Benton Sans Medium', Helvetica, sans-serif; width: 50.53125px;">
5%</div>
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<span class="i-icon i-glyph-icon-22-timeleft" style="-webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; box-sizing: border-box; display: inline-block; font-family: igg-glyphs-22; line-height: 1; speak: none; vertical-align: middle;"></span> <span style="box-sizing: border-box; vertical-align: middle;">18 days left</span></div>
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This campaign started on Apr 27 and will close on May 27, 2014 (11:59pm PT).</div>
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SELECT A PERK</div>
<ul class="i-perks" style="background-color: whitesmoke; box-sizing: border-box; list-style: none; margin: 0px; padding: 10px;"><a class="perk-box-link" href="https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bluff-creek-trail-camera-project/contributions/new?perk_amt=12&perk_id=1773003" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #eb1478; text-decoration: none;">
<li class="perk rounded shadow i-perk" style="background-color: white; border: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255); box-sizing: border-box; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 15px 10px 20px; position: relative;"><div class="amount bold i-perk-amount" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; display: inline; font-family: 'Benton Sans Black', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 24px; line-height: 34px;">
<span class="currency currency-large" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span style="box-sizing: border-box;">$12</span><span style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; font-family: 'Benton Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 26px; margin-left: 5px;">USD</span></span></div>
<div class="perk-title i-perk-title" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; font-size: 16px; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: 0px; line-height: 26px; margin-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px;">
Battery Sponsor!</div>
<div class="description i-perk-description" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; margin-bottom: 20px; white-space: pre-line; word-wrap: break-word;">
This covers one change of lithium batteries in a single camera.</div>
<div class="claim clearfix" style="box-sizing: border-box;">
<div class="fl claimed big-perk-button i-claim-item" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; padding: 10px 0px 0px;">
<span class="i-value" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; font-weight: bold;">1</span> claimed</div>
</div>
</li>
</a><a class="perk-box-link" href="https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bluff-creek-trail-camera-project/contributions/new?perk_amt=50&perk_id=1975116" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #eb1478; text-decoration: none;">
<li class="perk rounded shadow i-perk" style="background-color: white; border: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255); box-sizing: border-box; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 15px 10px 20px; position: relative;"><div class="amount bold i-perk-amount" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; display: inline; font-family: 'Benton Sans Black', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 24px; line-height: 34px;">
<span class="currency currency-large" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span style="box-sizing: border-box;">$50</span><span style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; font-family: 'Benton Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 26px; margin-left: 5px;">USD</span></span></div>
<div class="perk-title i-perk-title" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; font-size: 16px; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: 0px; line-height: 26px; margin-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px;">
Squatch Painting by Wes Losner</div>
<div class="description i-perk-description" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; margin-bottom: 20px; white-space: pre-line; word-wrap: break-word;">
That's right! For $50 you can get a custom, hand painted on canvas, Bigfoot painting. These are really cool. Wes made a bunch for us to offer as a perk. I'll start off with 10 and see where it goes!</div>
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<div class="fl perkdelivery big-perk-button i-claim-item i-delivery-date" style="border-bottom-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; margin: 0px; padding: 10px 0px;">
Estimated delivery: <span class="i-value" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; font-weight: bold;">July 2014</span></div>
<div class="fl claimed big-perk-button i-claim-item" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; padding: 10px 0px 0px;">
<span class="i-value" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; font-weight: bold;">0</span> out of <span class="i-value" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; font-weight: bold;">8</span> claimed</div>
</div>
</li>
</a><a class="perk-box-link" href="https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bluff-creek-trail-camera-project/contributions/new?perk_amt=100&perk_id=1960498" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #eb1478; text-decoration: none;">
<li class="perk rounded shadow i-perk" style="background-color: white; border: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255); box-sizing: border-box; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 15px 10px 20px; position: relative;"><div class="amount bold i-perk-amount" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; display: inline; font-family: 'Benton Sans Black', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 24px; line-height: 34px;">
<span class="currency currency-large" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span style="box-sizing: border-box;">$100</span><span style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; font-family: 'Benton Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 26px; margin-left: 5px;">USD</span></span></div>
<div class="perk-title i-perk-title" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; font-size: 16px; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: 0px; line-height: 26px; margin-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px;">
Come camping with us!</div>
<div class="description i-perk-description" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; margin-bottom: 20px; white-space: pre-line; word-wrap: break-word;">
At the $100 level you get an invite to come camping with us down at Louse Camp. We can't afford to cook for you or anything but you can come, hang out, and do some squatching!</div>
<div class="claim clearfix" style="box-sizing: border-box;">
<div class="fl claimed big-perk-button i-claim-item" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; padding: 10px 0px 0px;">
<span class="i-value" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; font-weight: bold;">0</span> claimed</div>
</div>
</li>
</a><a class="perk-box-link" href="https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bluff-creek-trail-camera-project/contributions/new?perk_amt=300&perk_id=1960499" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #eb1478; text-decoration: none;">
<li class="perk rounded shadow i-perk" style="background-color: white; border: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255); box-sizing: border-box; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 15px 10px 20px; position: relative;"><div class="amount bold i-perk-amount" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; display: inline; font-family: 'Benton Sans Black', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 24px; line-height: 34px;">
<span class="currency currency-large" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span style="box-sizing: border-box;">$300</span><span style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; font-family: 'Benton Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 26px; margin-left: 5px;">USD</span></span></div>
<div class="perk-title i-perk-title" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; font-size: 16px; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: 0px; line-height: 26px; margin-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px;">
Camera Sponsor!</div>
<div class="description i-perk-description" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; margin-bottom: 20px; white-space: pre-line; word-wrap: break-word;">
This covers a whole trail camera system. All contributors at this level will get invites to come and hang out and camp with us at Bluff Creek.</div>
<div class="claim clearfix" style="box-sizing: border-box;">
<div class="fl claimed big-perk-button i-claim-item" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #6a6a6a; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; padding: 10px 0px 0px;">
<span class="i-value" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: #2a2a2a; font-weight: bold;">0</span> claimed</div>
</div>
</li>
</a></ul>
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Help make it happen</div>
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for Bluff Creek Trail Camera Project and Jamie Schutmutt!</div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-5585850289199326672014-04-29T15:15:00.002-07:002014-04-29T16:33:55.442-07:00MK DAVIS, STILL LOST IN THE WOODS LOOKING FOR THE PATTERSON-GIMLIN BIGFOOT<div class="" style="clear: both; text-align: left;">
<b><span style="color: #990000;">BIGFOOT'S BLOG</span></b></div>
<b><span style="color: #990000;">Late April 2014 Edition</span></b><br />
<br />
OH BOTHER, MK Davis is back at it again. As if we didn't already know this, MK....<br />
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The question, "When was the Patterson film taken and who took it?"</div>
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/A1GxiwqyoqQ" width="420"></iframe>
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Thank you for wasting 16 minutes of our time, MK. This video again clearly demonstrates only his faulty thinking and conspiratorial theoretical leaps.<br /><br />Here is a recently-emerged frame from the film with the truest-to-life colors I've ever seen:<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-O-Jax5jPHSI/U2A2k_LF6II/AAAAAAAAFYk/wGQ08IvMwic/s1600/PGF+F364.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-O-Jax5jPHSI/U2A2k_LF6II/AAAAAAAAFYk/wGQ08IvMwic/s1600/PGF+F364.jpg" height="498" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The true colors of the plants, trees and sand on the Bluff Creek sandbar.<br /></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
</div>
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* Those patches of trees with the red leaves are vine maples, and still grow on those same spots today, turning red in mid to late October or early November.<br />
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* The color red is shown by MK from two separate copies of the film. Color balances differ. The "dead foliage" in his scanned image from Patricia shows the red vine maples shifted to brownish or orangish red. The other colors such as yellow show fading too. The vivid reds and yellows of the maples are distinct features of that very spot today, and the vine maples never turn red before October (in my 12 years of observation up there and also in the long memories of older locals in this area I've asked).<br />
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* The 1964 Flood did not get up that high and kill those trees. It killed those alders down on the sandbar that the flood created but left the trees at the back and up the banked hill there alone. This evidence exists still today all up and down the creek. The green trees seen in the PGF are Douglas fir mostly old growth, with some understory shrubs like Oregon grape and rhododendron and azalea. Alders grow down on the sandbar, but were mostly washed away by the historic flood.<br />
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* Bill Munns has a complete copy of the first roll of film and had shown that it is contiguous, with natural camera stops between scenes, is unedited, and was clearly shot at the same time of year as the Bigfoot part. The horseback scene was shot in the shadows of the canyon downstream and thus there was a big difference in exposure between there and the fully exposed sandbar where the Bigfoot appears. This accounts for color differences.<br />
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* In the questioning of Gimlin the guy asks who was carrying the camera when they rode out that day. Gimlin obviously meant that Roger was carrying the camera and filming things. This was because Gimlin was not a camera guy. Easy explanation: Then Roger wanted footage of himself. So he asked Bob to film him, needing only to say, Bob, just flick this switch here and hold it steady. Both accounts can exist without contradiction. This does not indicate a lie on Gimlin's part, but just a differing interpretation of the intent of the two questions.</div>
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<br />
* The film was shot in 1967, October 20th, at shortly after noon (approximately 1:00 p.m., but unverified by a watch at the time). At this time of day that shadow length is totally natural at that time of year. As stated above, MK offers no time of day nor date on the year for his comparison photo, and he certainly wasn't standing on the correct film site besides.</div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VePIG2n_KDA/U2Ab749G9eI/AAAAAAAAFYY/0fkKlZhuYro/s1600/Big+Tree+1+2012-06-23+18.36.44.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VePIG2n_KDA/U2Ab749G9eI/AAAAAAAAFYY/0fkKlZhuYro/s1600/Big+Tree+1+2012-06-23+18.36.44.jpg" height="640" width="480" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Big Tree in June 2012, surrounded by green-stage vine maples.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
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In other words.... MK is a fool playing goofy games on a computer. He can't even locate the correct film site, heading downstream to no man's land. The guy is lost in the woods and dreaming paranoid fantasies of massacres and flowing bloody streams with Bigfoot corpses piled high. Absurd.</div>
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The matter is settled and obvious, yet MK persists on his obfuscation and deliberate confusion of simple issues in order to advance his imaginary conspiracy theory and to gain attention and special fame. </div>
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There are many things still to be known about the PGF, but they are not to be found using delusional imagination. </div>
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His colors are being observed in somewhat degraded images from film copies. The natural colors are shifted somewhat. After that he intentionally manipulated cookies trying to show blood where there was none. Absurd.</div>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pcoIqXJl5q0/U2AQWTuxu4I/AAAAAAAAFW4/cpLmzCGHsbo/s1600/PGF+F364+crop.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pcoIqXJl5q0/U2AQWTuxu4I/AAAAAAAAFW4/cpLmzCGHsbo/s1600/PGF+F364+crop.jpg" height="417" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A crop of that frame from the film.</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LUzVsv-M_lY/U2AQlpS77sI/AAAAAAAAFXA/12mD4qscyck/s1600/PGF+scenes.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LUzVsv-M_lY/U2AQlpS77sI/AAAAAAAAFXA/12mD4qscyck/s1600/PGF+scenes.jpg" height="640" width="488" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The contiguous and unspliced scenes from the roll of film Patterson shot <br />
(with some help from Gimlin). Bill Munns states that these are natural camera transitions.<br />
Note how the reds are more prominent in the third scene, which is shot in a shadowy canyon.</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-F3HKiCYmzd0/U2AQ4TmM59I/AAAAAAAAFXI/Lb3uwaK9vEk/s1600/352-highest-quality-2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-F3HKiCYmzd0/U2AQ4TmM59I/AAAAAAAAFXI/Lb3uwaK9vEk/s1600/352-highest-quality-2.jpg" height="451" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">MK Davis' scan take from Patricia Patterson's transparency. Note the degradation of reds, yellows and browns.</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-67d8O4OG1Us/U2AatNrdw4I/AAAAAAAAFYA/7Lv_s6dxs1M/s1600/PGF+SITE+1978+TOPFOTO+TONY+HEALY.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-67d8O4OG1Us/U2AatNrdw4I/AAAAAAAAFYA/7Lv_s6dxs1M/s1600/PGF+SITE+1978+TOPFOTO+TONY+HEALY.jpg" height="428" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A photo from Tony Healy in 1978, showing the colors of foliage on the site, the vine maples not yet turned red.</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DI9FUacQt9A/U2AbavUKFiI/AAAAAAAAFYM/Z32B7dmveAQ/s1600/ME+at+Bluff+Creek+August+2012.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DI9FUacQt9A/U2AbavUKFiI/AAAAAAAAFYM/Z32B7dmveAQ/s1600/ME+at+Bluff+Creek+August+2012.JPG" height="358" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Me just downstream from the site in August. This is what the foliage looks like that time of year.<br />
Behind me are alders, vine maples, broadleaf maples, Douglas fir, and rhododendrons and ferns.</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;">More Fun MK Errors...<br />
<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-z0gCftS5Atk/U2AaE6hUv-I/AAAAAAAAFXw/8AtxLK0hgeY/s1600/MK+WRONG+LARGE+filmsiteaerial-perspective.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-z0gCftS5Atk/U2AaE6hUv-I/AAAAAAAAFXw/8AtxLK0hgeY/s1600/MK+WRONG+LARGE+filmsiteaerial-perspective.jpg" height="442" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">MK's incorrect view of the PGF site perspective.</td></tr>
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-J3qfZSJlYmI/U2AaUn0ictI/AAAAAAAAFX4/hQQW8nerCqs/s1600/filmsiteaerial-352-inset+CORRECT.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-J3qfZSJlYmI/U2AaUn0ictI/AAAAAAAAFX4/hQQW8nerCqs/s1600/filmsiteaerial-352-inset+CORRECT.jpg" height="442" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Perspective corrected by me and confirmed as accurate by Bill Munns and our site survey.</td></tr>
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MK believes a story handed down from great ur-hoaxer, IVAN MARX. More Massacre Madness...</div>
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<br /><div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com10tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-4771796340681103622014-03-25T18:24:00.000-07:002014-03-25T18:25:22.190-07:00A Miscellany of Posts I've Made on the JREF FORUM Regarding the PGF and Bigfoot: PART ONE, More Recent Stuff<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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THIS IS ARCHIVAL STUFF. JUST FOR THE RECORD.<br />
Some of the information and views here may be outdated or may have changed.<br /><br />
(This is More Recent Stuff, with the older posts to be presented here in the future in Part Two.)<br />
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<tr><td class="thead" id="currentPost" style="background-color: #ececec; background-image: url(http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/misc/subcatbg.gif); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-top-style: solid; border-width: 1px 0px 1px 1px; color: #5b5d64; font-family: tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; padding: 4px;"><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post7187501"><img alt="Old" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/statusicon/post_old.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="Old" /></a> 16th May 2011, 01:01 AM</td><td align="right" class="thead" style="background-color: #ececec; background-image: url(http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/misc/subcatbg.gif); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-bottom-style: solid; border-right-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-right-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-top-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 0px; color: #5b5d64; font-family: tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; padding: 4px;"> #<a href="http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7187501&postcount=6634" id="postcount7187501" name="6634" rel="nofollow" style="color: #5b5d64;" target="new"><strong>6634</strong></a></td></tr>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7186800#post7186800" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Murphy's PGF history. Only showed the Patty part. Film was either edited, or they fast forwarded past the first 3/4 roll. My guess is that it was already cut, otherwise you have a lot of fast forwarding to get to Patty.<br />
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Gimlin was so excited at being involved with the first ever film of bigfoot, that he didn't bother to show up...</div>
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I asked John Green about this. He recalls the first roll, but just that it had a bunch of scenery on it with horses and such, and then ending with the Bigfoot part. His memory of the second roll seems to have faded away, though he did see it at some time. You guys here will surely call me a blind believer, but I do tend to take the word of the guys who were actually there over a lot of latter-day theorizing. The problem is that those guys like Green, Hodgson, Gimlin, McClarin, whomever, are rather aged, and 1967 was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.<br />
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LTC, Gimlin had driven all night after a long and trying day. Can you really blame him for sleeping?<br />
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BFBM</div>
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<tr><td class="thead" id="currentPost" style="background-color: #ececec; background-image: url(http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/misc/subcatbg.gif); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-top-style: solid; border-width: 1px 0px 1px 1px; color: #5b5d64; font-family: tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; padding: 4px;"><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post7189128"><img alt="Old" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/statusicon/post_old.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="Old" /></a> 16th May 2011, 11:16 AM</td><td align="right" class="thead" style="background-color: #ececec; background-image: url(http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/misc/subcatbg.gif); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-bottom-style: solid; border-right-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-right-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-top-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 0px; color: #5b5d64; font-family: tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; padding: 4px;"> #<a href="http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7189128&postcount=6641" id="postcount7189128" name="6641" rel="nofollow" style="color: #5b5d64;" target="new"><strong>6641</strong></a></td></tr>
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Parnassus, I don't necessarily take everything Murphy says as Gospel. In fact, I recently talked to him about some of his film site ideas, and he altered his Sasquatch Summit presentation. He does, though, have good access to primary sources, knowing Green well, and having spent much time working with Dahinden. He has good access to early materials, photos and documents as well. He has tried nobly to be authoritative on these PGF matters, but some issues simply cannot be sorted out with absolute certainty.<br />
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<tr><td class="thead" id="currentPost" style="background-color: #ececec; background-image: url(http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/misc/subcatbg.gif); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-top-style: solid; border-width: 1px 0px 1px 1px; color: #5b5d64; font-family: tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; padding: 4px;"><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post7190874"><img alt="Old" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/statusicon/post_old.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="Old" /></a> 16th May 2011, 09:19 PM</td><td align="right" class="thead" style="background-color: #ececec; background-image: url(http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/misc/subcatbg.gif); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-bottom-style: solid; border-right-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-right-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-top-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 0px; color: #5b5d64; font-family: tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; padding: 4px;"> #<a href="http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7190874&postcount=6646" id="postcount7190874" name="6646" rel="nofollow" style="color: #5b5d64;" target="new"><strong>6646</strong></a></td></tr>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">AlaskaBushPilot</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7189950#post7189950" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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It isn't at all "just what Patterson said". First of all, Patterson said he mailed it, and there was the convoluted impossible story of getting to the store by 6pm after accomplishing all the chasing of bigfoot around, the casting of tracks, traveling back and forth from the campsite, and driving to mail the film before then going to the store.<br />
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Second of all, Patterson did not say anything about where the lab was. You did not say what the name of this alleged lab is. There's so much more, but all of this is people actively creating a story different from what Patterson himself said and it is clear why you do it: to correct and improve upon Patterson's story where it fails.<br />
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Where is the eagerness to improve upon Bob Heironimus' story where you feel that it fails? You haven't told us exactly what it is that is so wrong with it.<br />
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Patterson's story was contemporaneous so there is no excusing decades of memory loss, as seems reasonable to do with elements in Heironimus' recounting. A reasonable person, were they interested in the truth, would try not to be so one-sided in "fixing" the contemporaneous but impossible story and dismissing without the slightest consideration the story told decades after the fact.<br />
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Well a person could be specific about how they were trying to piece it together. This is pretty vague.<br />
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It's hard to remain gracious, and I want to. Forgive me if I fail there.</div>
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Patterson said it was processed "off the books" in an unofficial way, and he didn't want the guy to get in trouble if his name and the lab were revealed. There, the start of the problem. You'll say a convenient lie, I know. Murphy says he found there was processing capacity in the Seattle area for that kind of film, and it could have been done. Long interviewed one guy who said he didn't do it; but someone else in the lab or someone else in the area could have learned the process. I'm not bending the truth, but just looking into what has been said over the years about the film's history. Last I checked it is not my job to prove anything to you. I'm doing my own thing, and was only here responding to a few questions and sharing a little information we've found.<br />
<br />
I challenge you, BushPilot, to take out Long's book and sit on Google Earth and really try to make some sense of Hieronimus' "route" to the "film site." It is simply absurd. Go see. Or come down here and I'll show you.<br />
<br />
BTW, the pre-processing timeline IS possible, if they went directly to Willow Creek first, making it around 6:15, just like Gimlin always said and says. I know, I've tested it. The only part that doesn't make sense to me is this 3.5 mile tracking upstream idea. That seems excessive, I'll admit, on top of everything else.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Leroy Blevins</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7191997#post7191997" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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bigfootBookman-<br />
Really what time did they got into town.<br />
You said Bob Gimlin said and always said it was around 6:15 but in the interview with John Green he said it was 8:30 or 9:00.<br />
Bob Gimlin said in that interview that when they made the cast of the tracks and got back to camp and fed the horses and tied up the horses and it was good and dark by the time they got into town it was around 8:30 or 9:00.<br />
So by what you said Bob Gimlin said 6:15 like he always said but in a interview he claim it was 8:30 or 9:00.<br />
So what was the time they got into town?<br />
And what town did they mail the film off?<br />
For they even said they mailed the film to DeAtley house from Eureka CA.<br />
In other words they claim to have mailed the film out from different towns at different times.<br />
So I like to know what town they mailed the film from and what time did they mailed it?<br />
And please don't say Bob Gimlin said this or that for he changed his story about the time and town as well as Patterson did.<br />
You see this is why I never did my research on the stories they told is because their stories keep changing ever time they told it. Just like when they claim no one can make that kind of suit. I prove them wrong about that.<br />
You see you can not answer the questions and if you do you have to say Bob Gimlin said or Roger Patterson said when in fact it was proven time and time again that you can not go on what Bob Gimlin or Roger Patterson said.</div>
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OK, Leroy, I mis-spoke when I said "always." I should say "usually." You can't be too nitpicky on this stuff, Leroy, because as a matter of fact it is true (I am the first to admit it, as it troubles us to no end!) that the stories have morphed over the years, details have changed, been exaggerated, guessed at, altered in memory, and so many other problems. And, we now were not there then to document this stuff. The guys themselves did not really bother to document too much. Nor did the early researchers at the time. I say this does not necessarily prove a lie or a hoax, but just that they were almost certainly not paying attention to what time it was or how far they might have ridden on horses up and down the creek, and other matters like that.<br />
<br />
Remember, these guys don't seem to have been wearing watches, as the times are just rough estimates by all appearances. Also, they did not have odometers or pedometers on their horses.<br />
<br />
Gimlin states that it was good and dark by the time they made it into Willow Creek. Perhaps in 1992 he was thinking, oh, it must be dark at like 8:30. He says he IMAGINES it was around that time. In other words, he is just GUESSING. Someone probably corrected him, or he thought about it some more, and he realized that in later October (with daylight savings time not applying, too) it is starting to get dark in the Bluff Creek canyon sometime after 4:00, as the sun gets down behind the tall mountain ridge. If they left around this time, well, it takes about an hour to drive out from their camp area to Highway 96. From there it is some 30 miles of paved but curvy road to Willow Creek, and would have taken them some 45 minutes. So, it is totally plausible for them to have reached Hodgson's store at about 6:15, and called him there. Hodgson is the source for this time, and he knew best, as he'd just closed shop as always and reached home. He told me it MAY have been 6:30 when they called, as he was just estimating.<br />
<br />
One thing one just can't believe Al Hodgson on, in my opinion, is his memory that Roger said something about them having gone over the Bald Hills Road to town and delivered the film already. That route does not make sense, as it is two hours over the mountain to the coast (this AFTER the hour to get out of Bluff Creek down to Weitchpec), and another hour nearly from Orick area to the Eureka airport area. I think Al just misunderstood something that Roger said to him, or mis-remembers. Gimlin says they went to Willow Creek first, and then delivered the film, and this is much more plausible.<br />
<br />
From Willow Creek to Murray Field just outside of Eureka on the north takes about 50 minutes. It is not plausible that one can take the "mailed" statement literally, as the post offices would have been closed, and they could in any case have just mailed the film from Orleans or Hoopa or Willow Creek, towns that also had USPS offices. Hence, by their going to Eureka, we know they had OTHER intentions, namely, they must have been headed to the air courier office at the small plane airport. This is the only reason they would have had to head to Eureka. The conversation with the news reporter seems to have been done by phone, so that is not a reason to go to Eureka, either.<br />
<br />
Parnassus,<br />
From the above you'll see a few of the things I have "tested" in the timeline.<br />
I simply do not know how much time they spent after filming the creature in documenting or tracking it. One wonders about the 3.5 miles upstream tracking part of the story, for sure. However, if they filmed it around 1:00, and followed it a ways up the creek, then returned to inspect the tracks, nabbed the plaster, cast them, filmed a few things, then boogied on out of there, it could have been done. The route back to camp on the creekside road would have been much easier then than it is now (as there in fact IS NO ROAD to speak of there any longer). A horse walks maybe 4 miles per hour, trots maybe 8mph, and canters around 10mph (wikipedia says so, anyway: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_gait" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_gait</a>), so it wouldn't have taken them all that long a time to cover some five miles round trip to get plaster from camp.<br />
<br />
I find a leaving time around 4:15 or whatever totally plausible. I find the trip to Willow Creek plausible, and the trip to Eureka totally fine if one rules out this absurd post office idea. Now, the processing is another story, which has already been belabored endlessly; and it is not something I can test on the ground here. Murphy inquired at the Murray Field office, and they do not any longer have flight records for 1967, sadly. Even Greg Long discovered that there WAS processing of that Kodak film in the Seattle area at the time. I'll leave that issue for others to argue.<br />
<br />
The things above could have been done. One just has to remember that parts of the story were not properly documented at the time, that parts were altered in the tellings which involved hyperbole and the desire for drama, and that memories are vague and experiences subjective. The "timeline," then, is rooted in anecdote. Sure, you guys here will argue that it is all messed up because it was just a tall tale from the start. That's OK. Really, I don't mind. I'm just trying to investigate whether the things said about the PGF <i>could</i> be true, and in the cases above, yes, it could be.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Leroy Blevins</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7193600#post7193600" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Here is a video I made to show movie magic they did back in 1950's. I did a 7month study on movies and how they film them and edited them back in the 1950's I did this study to find out what they can and can not do with film in 1967.<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVTm_mck2TU" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVTm_mck2TU</a><br />
This test I did two years ago but, never post it until now. As you watch this video you will see one of the frames from the PG film that everyone has seen over the years. As you watch this frame I re-color it to make it look very clear and more light and I even took out the Bigfoot in this frame. Like I said I did this by doing the same thing they did back in 1950's when they worked on films.<br />
As you will see it was not that hard to do I did this re-color and took out the Bigfoot in this frame within 5mins.<br />
Again I show the work I do and the test I do to find out if it can or can not be done.<br />
I like to add when I recolor this frame you can see more trees in the back ground then you can see in the original frame.</div>
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It seems that all Leroy has done is altered the apparent "exposure" levels of the film images by boosting color saturation, contrast, etc. in a digital program. I'm not sure why it took him seven months of supposedly studying FILM techniques to learn how to do something that is readily apparent to be learned in Photoshop in about ten seconds. It is clear that Leroy is not working with film at all, but just manipulating a digital image; and proving NOTHING at all. The colors there are just brighter, not different, or "added." Duh.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Leroy Blevins</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7193772#post7193772" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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BigfootBookman- one I don't use photo shop. And two again you don't know how I did it. I used real film frames to do the editing on the film frame.<br />
I did not use a photo I used a film frame to do it. So again you are making a claim you know nothing about. You don't know what I do here.<br />
What next are you going to tell people I just took the Bigfoot from the PG film and past it on another photo and tell people I made a copy of the suit.<br />
I prove you wrong again.</div>
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Leroy, so what WAS your process, then? It sure looks to me like it was done on a computer. Did you actually use 1950s or 60s film methods? I doubt it. Seems you just scanned a frame into your computer. Also, who knows where that frame came from, which copy, and what generation?<br />
Explain this.<br />
<br />
Also... do please explain your source for all this so-called "information" on Ron Olsen. The PGF clip in his ANE SASQUATCH: LEGEND OF BIGFOOT film is hardly "improved" nor does it have "color added." It's a low grade copy like those in nearly all the BF documentaries. And it's clearly just a clip, not the full original film as you presume.<br />
<br />
Oh, but you just "left." What, are you chicken?<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Leroy Blevins</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7194163#post7194163" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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BigfootBookman-<br />
One I don't have to explain nothing to you. And you call me chicken come on that is so childish. What next you going to send your Dad after my Dad.<br />
By the way what makes you think you know what you are talking about when I seen your new video and the way you talked about the painting<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2wA3iW1YAI&feature=channel_video_title" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2wA3...el_video_title</a><br />
You talked about Bigfoot having a contractor licensed and insurance. And you said "I don't see any marijuana plaints".<br />
And by the way I show my name Leroy Blevins Sr. I don't hind behind a fake name BigfootBookman.<br />
And if Bigfoot is so real as you claim then you show the proof that they are real.<br />
I know I claim to have seen one but, I am not out proving they are real to each his own when it come to Bigfoot. But you are out telling people that they are real so why don't you go out and get one to show to all the people and not just keep talking about this BS PGF.<br />
You live where they are and you go to Bluff Creek well you should have no problem in finding one when you live next door to them. Roger Patterson did and he was from Washington and he filmed one there so you should be able to do this with your eyes closed but , if I was you, you better keep them open.<br />
Bye, Bye</div>
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No comment... or maybe I'd better?<br />
Blevins does not know a joke when he sees one, I suppose, nor does he know it as he should when he looks in the mirror. "Chicken" means you won't come forth with your sources and verify anything, so all of us here really just have to assume that you don't really have any valid sources, and you just evade ever having to prove anything you dream up in your bizarre, conspiratorial theories. Oh well.<br />
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The mural in Willow Creek depicts Bigfoot helping out in the economic development of the town. It DAMN WELL SHOULD have marijuana plants depicted in there, as that is the only real cash source we have left out here. About a third of this town is growing... weed. How do I know what I am talking about? I live here, and I interviewed the artist who painted the mural. And really, I can't help it that Duane Flatmo painted Bigfoot as a contractor. What is your point? I know you were a contractor yourself, so why can't you build a theory that will stand squarely the test of time and analysis? You make houses on sand, supported by illusions, and roofed over by pure thinly-sliced baloney.<br />
<br />
As far as the name, everybody knows who I am on here, I believe, and they can readily see all of my contact and biographical information by looking at my blog, frequently identified here as:<br />
<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/</a><br />
<br />
As far as proving Bigfoot is real, that is not my job. I'd love to see one for ten minutes like you claim to have done, but oh well. Why didn't you take a picture or film it, Leroy? There are active Bigfoot zones all around Willow Creek. I look into the reports. I go into the woods a lot. Who knows? Maybe they are real and I will see one. It's funny, though... you always claim I am trying to prove the PGF and Bigfoot are real, but really I am an agnostic about everything, and I'm just trying to honestly look at the phenomenon. One thing I do know: BIGFOOT IS NOT AN EDOMITE.<br />
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Leroy, go have a beer, man. It would do you some real good.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Leroy Blevins</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7196252#post7196252" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Bye bye</div>
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There are plenty of cases made for the validity of the PGF, and I don't need to make yet another. They're in the books, if you could actually try reading them.<br />
<br />
All you have so far is a lot of pareidolia nonsense, and a cheap, modified gorilla costume that might possibly look good at a dark Halloween party. It certainly does not make you some kind of hero, for all your crowing about it.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Drewbot</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7195107#post7195107" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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BFBM JUSTED GOT PWNED!1!!1 BY BEVINS. Got any evidence BFBM? nope</div>
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That is a logical fallacy. Attacking the PGF or Bigfoot evidence is NOT the same as attacking ME. Also, Blevins BELIEVES in Bigfoot himself, so his argument is disingenuous. I've said it here many times before: I have no ego-investment in proving Bigfoot exists. My arguments here are not, in fact, even based on that premise. Blevins boxes at a straw man, clearly.</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Leroy Blevins</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7196974#post7196974" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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River-<br />
I found that video by just looking at videos about facebook.<br />
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<tr><td style="border: none; color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: x-small; font-variant: normal;"><b>Edited by LashL: </b></td><td style="color: #8e1616; font-size: small; font-variant: normal;"><i>Edited.</i></td></tr>
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I've said it before, do I have to say it again? John Green was simply trying to be polite to you. What did he tell me? Well, here it is again:<br />
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JOHN GREEN: "I have tried reasoning with Blevins, to no avail. Nothing left to do but ignore him....<br />
Why does every crazy need to be refuted? MK and Paulides had earlier acquired a following with their work in this field so they needed to be answered when they went astray, but who is this guy that anyone should worry about him?"<br />
<br />
[Note: the use of the word "crazy," above, is not my own, but is the expressed opinion of someone not in the employment of Bigfoot Books.]<br />
<br />
If Green saw the creature as black in the film that says next to nothing. He was not viewing it either in person or with modern photographic enhancement. In the small, uncropped original, shown on a tiny home screen no doubt, he saw it as a dark figure, and it struck him as black. That's all. That does not mean it was not dark, reddish brown when viewed under better circumstances. In any case, that is just his subjective perception.<br />
<br />
If you want to talk about "facts," then OK: TELL US HOW YOU KNOW ALL OF THIS ABOUT RON OLSON COLORIZING AND ADDING TO THE FILM? Cite verifiable SOURCES please.<br />
<br />
Pure comic Halloween costume, in my opinon:<br />
<a href="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DiRWOLTsDyY/TY5X5k2O7fI/AAAAAAAADok/tiE7U9_Md_4/s1600/Blevins+BF+Suit.jpg" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-D...ns+BF+Suit.jpg</a><br />
I can't tell if that is supposed to be a ninja or an overgrown spider monkey with a big butt.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Leroy Blevins</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7197203#post7197203" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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BigfootBookman-<br />
And to the rest of what you said I don't have to show nothing to you because you have not shown one thing to me as the film as being real.<br />
You show me that the PG film is 100% real then I will show you everything I have and where I got it and where I found it.<br />
<br />
And I do mean show me it is 100% real by what you find out and not by other people research.<br />
<br />
SHOW ME THE PROOF OF THE BIGFOOT IN THE FILM IS 100% REAL.<br />
Come on if you know so much show me up by showing me that the Bigfoot in the film is real.<br />
And until you can show me the Bigfoot in the film is 100% real then stop crying to me about what I show and post.<br />
Sorry to all the others on this site</div>
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That latter is a very empty offer. Obviously, by now, NO ONE has been able to say 100% of anything either way in regard to this film. That is a major aspect of its continuing fascinating appeal. Leroy KNOWS I cannot "prove" the film to be real, 100%. So I guess he will never show us his evidence and "sources."<br />
<br />
Mr. Blevins makes extraordinary claims about the history of the film. All I am asking is WHERE does he come up with all of this stuff? I mean, if he knows all about who had the original film and when, and that Ron Olson colorized and added additional material to the film which was originally only 30 seconds, and that the early part was not even shot at Bluff Creek, shouldn't he be required to at least cite his source for all to see? Wouldn't he WANT to cite that source in order to validate his own claims? In what other field of history or learning may we just SAY something without corroborating evidence or a credible source? Without some source we really have no idea of whether his claims are at all credible; and in fact, I think everyone here is absolutely convinced of their incredibility. Add that to the fact that we do have other evidence and claims quite to the contrary, and we are left with just a bunch of empty words proving nothing. How can any of his claims have any value to this area of study, beyond amusing diversion, if they are not substantiated? Are these not the same criticisms that skeptics levy against "Bigfoot Believers"?<br />
<br />
I am not making personal attacks here, really, as Leroy seems to be a perfectly nice, decent fellow in his personal, ordinary life... just like MK Davis is.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Gilbert Syndrome</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7197472#post7197472" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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What are these cases for validity?</div>
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I'm not here to make that case. I've seen the ridicule here heaped on believers, so why should I bother? If I were to quote, say, Meldrum or Munns, you'd all just laugh as is typical here. I don't see any reason to expose myself to such abuse. I'm interested in the PGF and the Bluff Creek histories. That's what I'm here for, even if most views are skeptical or mocking.<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Gilbert Syndrome</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7197614#post7197614" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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You keep asking Leroy to cite his information for his claims, but you won't... If you refrain from posting your beliefs for fear of ridicule then why on earth are you here, why be in the debate at all?</div>
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Gilbert, I have not MADE that claim here.<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Gilbert Syndrome</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7197675#post7197675" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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All I did was merely ask you what those many cases were... If you won't tell me for fear i'll ridicule you then I don't know what to say.... Its rather ironic though, since you're giving Leroy grief for not giving you the info you're asking for...</div>
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Gilbert, you KNOW what those cases are. They are in the books. Why should I reiterate them here?<br />
<br />
The points I have been making here are in regard to the history of Bluff Creek and the P-G Film, not the validity or falsity of the film's subject.<br />
<br />
I am not afraid of your ridicule. It's just a tired old argument without resolution, that's all.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Gilbert Syndrome</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7197722#post7197722" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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If you don't feel comfortable addressing my question, thats fair enough, but you must surely realize that you can't demand such information from others and then refuse to engage when you, yourself, are asked to do the same.</div>
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No, your argument is specious. I am asking Blevins for the sources for claims he has made here. When I have made claims I have been quite open with my sources: John Green, Al Hodgson, Jim McClarin, Jay Rowland, Christopher Murphy, Daniel Perez, et al. These are two wholly different categories. You are in fact trying to change the subject.<br />
<br />
You are capable of finding which are the major books on Bigfoot and the PGF, are you not? Try Meldrum's book for starters. He makes some pretty good points.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">parnassus</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7197970#post7197970" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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BFBM<br />
Plz STFU. Go to the movies.<br />
Just as a favor to me. Im begging you . At least ignore Leroy for 48 hrs.<br />
I'll do the dishes for a week.<br />
Yer makin me crazy.</div>
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OK Parnassus, I'll leave this forum to you and Leroy's monkey suit. It's OK.<br />
<br />
Re. the other guys' points: I've made it clear that my position on the film is agnostic, and I'm only really interested in discovering the events and geography surrounding it, which to me are interesting local history. I simply do not wish to switch over to a fruitless argument about whether Bigfoot is real or not. You guys seem to have settled opinions anyway.<br />
<br />
Kitakaze, you are welcome to visit, and it would be great to meet you. Any of you here, should you be in a friendly mood, are welcome. I'll even show you the Bluff Creek and film site areas if you can be there without guffawing and scaring off all of the Sasquatch.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Leroy Blevins</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7200277#post7200277" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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I also like to add when you see this part of the PG film you will see Roger Patterson riding his horse and you can see a dog running around. This is one of the dogs Roger Patterson used in making his documentary and as you see in the frame that MK Davis points out there is a dog print in the sand. That print was made by the dog you see in this first part of the PG film when the dog was running around Roger Patterson and his horse. That part of the film is also in the PG film.</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Leroy Blevins</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7200260#post7200260" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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The sounds you hear on this film is like you would hear on a documentary they added horse sounds and other sound. Even when they started to film the Bigfoot they add the sounds of horses going crazy. And there is talking on the film.<br />
What I like to point out is why they don't play the sound today when they show the film.<br />
Here is a video That if you listen to the sounds in the back ground is the sounds on the film but, the voices and the music and Roger Patterson talking and Grover Krantz was added to this documentary on the PG film they shown on TV. But the sounds of horses and horses going crazy is what is on the PG film that you hear in the back ground.</div>
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Um.... uh.... hmmm. No Comment.<br />
<br />
Some questions, though:<br />
<br />
Was EVERY piece of film or photo of Roger Patterson ever taken "part of the PG Film"?<br />
I guess his whole life was "part of the PG Film"; and yes, it had sound, dogs and horses in it.<br />
Just like Washington is in Bluff Creek, I guess.<br />
<br />
Were the horse sounds added, or NOT?<br />
What makes Blevins think it wasn't ALL added?<br />
<br />
Also, if there is ONE dog print seen on the Bluff Creek sandbar, where are all the OTHERS? Last I checked, dogs have four legs.<br />
Parei-dogprint-dolia?<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Leroy Blevins</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7200717#post7200717" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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BigfootBookman-<br />
This is what I am talking about every time I show something you come out trying to make my findings as if I am just tell a tail about the film.<br />
I like to ask you, have you ever seen the whole PG film and not just parts they show on TV?<br />
I know you have not seen the film.<br />
So how do you know what is on the film or not.</div>
</div>
You show me nothing I haven't heard of before, save for your own "unique ideas." Yes, I have seen ALL of the publicly available versions of the film and documentary inclusions, so far as I know of them. I have seen the first frames, the middle frames, and the last frames. What might I be missing? Oh yeah, the sound, the edited parts, the Gimlin in the bushes....<br />
<br />
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Quote:</div>
<div class="quote-message" style="margin-top: 5px;">
You see even when I point things out that even Bill Munns shows and claims you still have a hard time in believing me.</div>
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I have read the full Munns Report. What I was asking you is how you know there were edits and colorizations and additions done by Ron Olson. It is known that ANE got rights and then probably even the original. So? Speak to the question I ask, not a dodge to something else, please.<br />
<br />
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Quote:</div>
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I like to make a point here if people don't mind. I come here and post things I find and yes I even show the frames I do have. Just like the dog print in the PG film. Yes dogs do have 4 legs and the reason why the 1 print shows up and the others did not show up is as it was told the sand at Bluff Creek becomes dark when it get wet. So with this in mind the dog at the film site may have got one of it's paw's wet and step on the sand and that one print turn dark when that sand got wet from that one paw being wet and this is why there was only one print.<br />
I mean there is water at Bluff Creek.</div>
</div>
The dog print appears in the middle of an even part of the sand bar, and there is only ONE print. AND, that part of the sandbar was up a considerable way from the creek. Did the dog levitate?<br />
<br />
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Quote:</div>
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You see Steve no matter what I say or even others say you keep coming up with your side and make excuses for the film and the people around the film.<br />
Let me show you.<br />
I claim Bob Gimlin did not have the camera so someone else was with them for that person to film Roger Patterson at Bluff Creek.<br />
Then I find a interview and post it where you can hear Bob Gimlin himself said that he had nothing to do with the camera and that Roger had the camera the whole time and that he don't know how to use a camera and even to this day he don't take picture or know how to work a camera.<br />
Then when I show you this and post it you come off with a excuse for Bob Gimlin by saying well maybe he forgot.</div>
</div>
Human memory is dodgy, flexible, mutable. And then there is the tendency to add hyperbole and drama to a story, for it to change and adapt with perspective and time.<br />
<br />
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Here is 1 fact that they had someone else with them for them to film Roger Patterson at Bluff Creek for Bob Gimlin claim he never used the camera.<br />
That is a fact.<br />
And the person that filmed Roger Patterson at Bluff Creek was left handed by the way the person was filming Roger Patterson. I did a 6 month study on filming and angles of a person that does filming. Can I show this yes for I too did diagrams on filming and the angle of shot when someone is filming from the right hand and left hand and even in front of them. I point this out to MK Davis and he said to me you have a good eye for pointing this out.<br />
Let me show you.<br />
Take the Bigfoot and put it in the middle of the scene. If you was filming from your left side you will see more of the right of the Bigfoot then the left for you are filming from the left. Now if you are filming from the right side you will see more on the left side of the Bigfoot then the right for you are filming from the right. Now if you had the camera right in front of you and filming from the front of you, you would see the same distance on both sides of the Bigfoot and the Bigfoot would be in the middle of the frame. This show you are filming from the front of you.<br />
And the PG film shows by the angles of filming that the parts that shows Bob Gimlin was filmed by a man that is right handed for when you see Bob Gimlin you see more to the left of Bob Gimlin then you do of the right of Bob Gimlin. Now the parts that shows Roger Patterson was filmed by a man that was left handed for when you see Roger Patterson you will see more of the right then the left of Roger Patterson.<br />
So you see the proof is in the film all you need to do is find the angles of the shots in the film and that will tell you if it was shot from the left or right or in front of the camera man.</div>
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JREF OPTICAL EXPERTS: Can any of you see any sense to the right-left-handedness issue? It seems to me with distance and perspective there would be no way to tell. The angle of view will not change considerably with a shift of about one foot when viewing a distance of about a hundred feet. And anyways, couldn't one just say that the camera position was simply a foot to the left or right, rather than a right or left shoulder of the photographer?<br />
<br />
BFBM<br />
<br />
"I am out of here."</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">AlaskaBushPilot</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7210433#post7210433" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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This is just the kind of apologetics I have been pointing out: Clearly, At every turn the objective is to improve upon the story the hoaxers told, or subsequently told in contradiction to the first.<br />
<br />
Even when rejecting what Roger said, the blame goes on someone else like Hodgson for remembering what the con-man said to him wrong.<br />
<br />
It is a kind of fealty to Roger that in his grave must feel pretty good after a lifetime lacking any respect from most.</div>
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What I have said is hardly "apologetics." All I am saying is that some aspects of the stories told about the PGF events make sense to me, and are testable on the ground, while other things do not make sense. I've tried to rule out implausible things like Bald Hills Road and the post office, as they could not be done, or there would have been no reason for them to have done so. Other parts make perfect sense, and I have found that they indeed could have been done. I cannot account for the variability in the tellings of the tale, but I can chalk much of it up to variable memory over time and the desire at times for dramatic hyperbole.<br />
<br />
I do not "blame" Al Hodgson. He admits freely to me that he does not recall everything, nor recall it perfectly. As he is the only source for this Bald Hills route, and because the route makes no sense, I conclude that either Patterson mis-spoke, Al mis-heard, or Al mis-recalls. I can look to things Gimlin said that make more sense to me, and I can theorize that perhaps he is correct about those things.<br />
<br />
You can declare it all a lie, as is your right, but your theoretical assumption may indeed be wrong.<br />
<br />
You are not fully correct about Patterson either, BushPilot. As you've read Long's book you know darn well that a lot of people in Yakima respected (and still do) or were deeply fond of the guy.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">parnassus</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7215164#post7215164" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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What is the significance of what he did?</div>
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The "Bigfoot Corpse" is in the "bloody red hole" at the start of the film. That is clearly what B. Short was trying to show on her BF Encounters film splices page (taken down last time I checked). MKD has said this on his online "radio" show, too (search for ArtistFirst Bigfoot Central to find it). John Green, they say, imply, or insinuate, cut and spliced the film right at the start to remove the incriminating beheaded, skinned, bloody body of a Bigfoot. Malarkey!<br />
<br />
I wonder: is B. Short getting marketing payments for promoting the upcoming "Incident at Bluff Creek" DVD "documentary" horrorfest?</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">bobbieshort</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7224556#post7224556" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Funny how you criticize a film you've never evaluated on a frame by frame basis, Steven.<br />
<br />
Do your usual ad hominem attack - we've come to expect it from you.</div>
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I have that section of the film in a frame-by-frame, slowed-down version. I see no bloody hole, and no Bigfoot body. What can I say? I am not attacking you, nor MKD, nor anyone else involved in that inane and ridiculous "theory"; I am attacking the inanity and ridiculousness of the theory. Do you see the difference? What I said above was not ad hominem.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem</a><br />
<br />
The last part of my previous post was simply a joke; but it was also me wondering if you <i>are</i> in collaboration with a certain filmmaker.<br />
<br />
True ad hominem would be along the lines of: "Bobbie Short is loopy because she believes in the 'Massacre', so everything she says is absurd and not to be believed." Clearly this is not true, as you have much great stuff on your BF Encounters web site.<br />
<br />
There ARE some things on your site that I will critique, and those are the things that I find incorrect and ridiculous, such as:<br />
* the film was only 30 seconds long,<br />
* Patterson was in Bluff Creek on Labor Day,<br />
* the film was spliced to hide a bloody corpse,<br />
and of course...<br />
* Titmus was there when they killed the Bigfoot family as documented in the August-September Dahinden footage.<br />
<br />
All malarkey. Nothing personal.<br />
<br />
BFBM<br />
<br />
PS--Are you sure that Munns is using partial frames? In my version the camera jerks back and forth from left to right quite a bit, and the "hole" is not always even visible. In any case, if Munns wants to show the berm/bank as demonstrative of his theory that the creek flows behind there, it is not in any way his obligation to show the whole frame when only a detail is demonstrative... and in any case, it is not a sign of some malign, evil conspiracy nor a cover-up, as you imply.</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">parnassus</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7225092#post7225092" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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BFBM<br />
You use the very transparent "I was just kidding" ploy all too frequently. Maybe you ought to think about either saying you're sorry or saying you meant what you said.<br />
Of course irony is lost on footers but you did serve up a healthy portion by suggesting Bobbie was using the forum for commercial purposes. And by terming someone else's idea "malarky."</div>
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I tend to be an ironic and sometimes sarcastic guy. I won't apologize for that; though I admit it can sometimes be misunderstood, especially when people these days do not tend to read anything closely, and are ever prone to emotional and ideological reactions, taking things out of their true contextual meaning and intent.<br />
<br />
I don't think B. Short's motivation is monetary, nor that she is getting paid for it. Her web site is free to the public, and a wonderful service to the field. Rather, I think the "Theory That Dare Not Speak Its Name," and the upcoming "Incident at Bluff Creek" are part of an irrational belief system and ideology aimed against "The Canadians" and Gimlin, one that at this point approaches the basic structures of a religion.<br />
<br />
I know, you will say that all of Bigfooting is like that, which is your own ideology and right. Fine. I'd rather keep an open mind about mysterious things.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Drewbot</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7232273#post7232273" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Yes, tell us what you think he is hiding. Is he part of the conspiracy? What do you see in the frame?</div>
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Here it is, that which B. Short sees:<br />
<a href="http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/BigfootBooks/THEORYstick-bar-ditch-pete-williams-take.jpg" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/...liams-take.jpg</a><br />
<a href="http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/BigfootBooks/THEORYaaronsdepiction.jpg" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/...sdepiction.jpg</a><br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7235508#post7235508" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Yes, we know...</div>
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Yes, I know that you know; and I just wanted Ms Short to know that we all know, too. And no extent of beating around the bush with implications, nor removing her film splice page on BF Encounters that bore that image at the bottom as a conclusion, will change that fact.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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<strong>The adventurous tale of mkd....</strong></div>
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(The following text was found buried in the sands of Bluff Creek, scrawled in blood on an old and weather'd parchment made of Sasquatch hide. Read on if you dare!)<br />
<br />
Years ago in time out of mind a little man from the Southern Shires came forth from his hole-in-the-ground home bearing a bound manuscript volume of great Ideas of his own Invention, entitled, Bluff Creek Incident: There and Back Again. It was a great achievement in the mind of this diminutive, furry-footed, erstwhile picture analyst by trade. It made him a Name and great Fame among the townsfolk of Gcbro, and other hamlets throughout the Southern Lands. In it he vanquished the dark lords and their orc minions from the frigid, frozen North Lands, sending these "Canadians" back down into their subterranean cave lairs. This, then, is the brief telling of this tale of the great Hero, one Mrodo Kibbets Daggins, or as we shall call him hereby his popular name of repute, the Honorable Noble Knight of the Shire, MKD.<br />
<br />
Gather round, hear the telling of the tale! Hear how around him gathered from far flung hobbitine holes the Grave Lord MonsterHunter, the stern White Queen BS, and the loyal Dark Duke Dave of Gilroy Province. Hear how he, the adamant MKD, was first set on the Path of Adventure by the wily wizard, Beckjord the Grey. Hear with thine own ear how he slew on the grand voyage that followed the grim and pitiless serpent, Giant Salamader. Hear how he righteously stole the honored Great Ring, signet of Footer of the Year, from Sir Danny of the Southwest, and how he gave it to his trusty footman, DonDon, for safekeeping lest he garner of it power too great (still, he secretively donned the ring surreptitiously, while up in his tower chamber at Castle ArtistFirst). Hear how he traveled far-flung trails to the holy site of Discovery in Bluff Creek, California Territory, a continent away from his humble home, and dangerously adjacent to the Dark Lord Green's Northern lair. Hear how MKD saw clearly that all other chroniclers were wrong, and only he the rightful and truthful heir to the truth, and the True Site.<br />
<br />
Know that Truth descended in mighty Glory, being brought to him in grand visions of the mind (kindled by the sage herbal intoxicants given him in his tea by the sorcerer Beckjord). These hidden and cryptic truths were dispensed by him in fardels borne by myriad henchmen, lest He, MKD, be known as the Source of what to the Dark Lord Green of the North could only be taken as the Causative Slander of Great Battle. Know and see how wily MKD, like Odysseus of old, enfeebled the mind of the great warrior Cyclops of "Ape" (also known as Gigantopithius) and confounded his troops with the many-layered Onion of Conspiracy.<br />
<br />
Yea, internally he received, and outwardly he saw, vast projections upon the landscape of the venerable Celluloid Called P-G. Famed MKD is, and rightfully, for showing in this Film the Beast of God, a human form with braided hair and stick in hand, big-footed, as she walked into glorious martyrdom and Sacrifice for all Folk of the Good South at the hands of Northern reivers, and their shadowy Wraiths of Washingtonia. She and her Relations were felled by the musket ball of the Evil Titmouse and the dread Dwarf warrior, Gimli. The grave consiglieri, Dahinde Rene documented and depicted it for All across the flat Earth to see. And they spent the wretched remainder of their days covering up their shame with fig leaf books and pamphlets on "Big Foot." Only the Noble MKD saw through the Great Lie, and only he, with the aid of his scribe, Johnny-John Grendel could decipher the mystery from the obfuscatory haze; and only they master the great technique of the Sacred rainbow DVD.<br />
<br />
Great armies converged from all provinces upon that tiny sandbar of Bluff Creek! For yea, it was as prophesied of old, the site of End Times and Great Portent. Alerted by gaunt and raving logging company scouts in the Southlands, Lord Green with great stealth assembled his cadre of assassins to descend upon this last, Lost World tribe of Big Foot. Human they were, though hirsute, odoriferous, and of great bulk; and expert they were at avoiding all technique of fire, writing, possessions and homes. Full of Goodness they were, the bane of Lord Green. Terrible and grievous this Canadian was, and forth from his Castle Harrison Hot, poured forth his vile and sub-human, ape-like servants. Upon Bluff Creek they assembled, and there they made a large Hole upon the sandbar to receive the blood of the Sacrifice. The snare set, into the woods they dissolved, awaiting their prey.<br />
<br />
We need not say more to the believing Public, need we? Into the Bloody Hole their bodies fell, the hairy ones, and they were skinned, beheaded, and buried with the sinful, black fume belching Backhoe of Whitson. Red flowed the creek's waters, and red the sand with the prints of the Hounds of Moffit. Buried were the bones, lost the true tale of the extirpation, and watched over it was by the dragon Salamander. Flood and Clear-cut took their tolls, time washed away the traces of the Crime, and lo, even the roads began to be taken back into Nature until even the site was lost.<br />
<br />
One dark apostle, Patterson the Short, was sent forth to beguile and dissimulate among the People, false prophet of Lord Green that he was, accompanied by Gimli. His film, infernally wrought upon a mystifying strip, clipped and trimmed of all but one bloody image at its start, was soon shown upon every wall and magic glass within the known boundaries of the world circle. So great was the enchantment that no one save MKD (protected from the sleep of reason again by Beckjordian Art) knew of the baleful, sinister, exsanguinated but also redemptive Truth. Across plain and vast pinnacles, crossing, past demon and hideous guardian beasts alike, MKD traveled. To Bluff Creek he came, and to the Site he walked through wood and water, until there he found the holy relics, a metallic wire, a piece of bone. Femur of Sasquatch held aloft to the wrathful Northern skies, MKD howled and raged, imperious he stood in the canyons shadows. I shall go forth now to the world and proclaim this Terrible Mystery, he proclaimed. And a Voice came from on high, saying, "This is my prophet, and he shall be the only One in the Land who shall see, who shall know, and let all others be blinded by Science, History, and Reason."<br />
<br />
Returning to the Southern land of Miss Is Ippy, MKD built the lone tower of Bigfoot Central, and began his arduous task of discovery and proclamation. Long days and nights he spent poring over every frame from the Film, his eyes blear and crossed, until from the still images forms began to emerge, to move, to speak to him of forgotten lore and fable. Though Massacre it was, and Murder as Big Foot was Human, MKD made firm his resolve that No Name would his Theory have. It Dare Not Speak Its Name, as such words would slay the minds of men, rendering them irredeemably lost to the realms of Day. Finally, Truth was his, and alone his, the Account of what no one else had Seen and Known, that only He, MKD, could know and see, as he was blessed with second sight, and third sight, and....<br />
<br />
[Here the manuscript abruptly ends.]<br />
<br />
Read more at:<br />
<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/theory-that-dare-not-speak-its-name.html" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com...-its-name.html</a><br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">AtomicMysteryMonster</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7279283#post7279283" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Can you please cite a source for this? I suspect that you're misremembering a statement by DeAtley, but I want to give you a chance to prove yourself correct<br />
<br />
But Greg Long says he found records saying that no planes were allowed to fly due to the bad weather. This (along with post office closing times) would render your proposed "6:15 timeline" unworkable. Why not see if you can confirm or deny Long's claim? Posting scans of records showing otherwise would be a great help to your timeline theory, after all.</div>
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First, where are the supposed records Greg Long "found"? I do not recall him "finding" these in his book's narrative.<br />
<br />
The rainstorm did not hit until the early morning of October 21st, starting to rain around 5:00 a.m., as I recall Gimlin saying. The film, were it on a plane, would have been in the air the preceding evening, probably before 9:30 or so when he was talking to the newspaper guy. It would have been landed in Seattle or Yakima area before the rain even hit, so how can you be so sure they would have prohibited flights out of Murray Field? If you're going to ask me to cite sources, then please provide the source and context and page numbers or links for Greg Long's "discovery."<br />
<br />
The 6:15 timeline idea is based on what Gimlin and Hodgson say. That they could have made it to Willow Creek by 6:15 is indisputable. However, what they did once they went over the hill to the coast is another matter. The airport people told Christopher Murphy that there WERE 24-hour services available there in 1967, with charter flights available and pilots on call. They apparently didn't have any records of those years in the office when Murphy was there. Perhaps Greg Long talked to a different person who knew more? I'd be curious to know.<br />
<br />
I tried looking up Murray Field in the phone book, but there is no listing. I will have to try dropping by the offices someday. That is about 45 miles from where I live, however.<br />
<br />
The source for the Patterson statement is Murphy's "Bigfoot Film Journal," though I recall reading that statement or the idea of it somewhere else before that book came out.<br />
<br />
Murphy sent this to me:<br />
"The info re the processing was in a newspaper article written by Peter Loudon (page 44, 45, Bigfoot Film Journal)."<br />
<br />
Peter Loudon, Victoria, British Columbia, TIMES COLONIST newspaper.<br />
<br />
Patterson said: "I got them [the film processing] done at a private place. It would jeopardize the man's job if it were told."<br />
<br />
Murphy says more, but you should all just break down and buy his excellent books. Some of BF Film Journal may be read here:<br />
<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=0_vFkL6p5mEC&pg=PA100&dq=google+books+Bigfoot+Film+Journal" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://books.google.com/books?id=0_v...t+Film+Journal</a><br />
<br />
What did Al DeAtley say that you think I am mis-remembering?<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Drewbot</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7248680#post7248680" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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I understand yoy think Patty is a real creature, and that you have no more evidence of that, than THEY have of a massacre. But that was TOTALLY AWESOME! (if u actually wrote all that)</div>
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D-Bot,<br />
<br />
OF COURSE I <i>could have</i> written all of that, but like I said, the parchment scroll with writing in Sasquatch blood was found in a sealed vial buried beneath the Bluff Creek sands. It is a great Mystery, indeed.<br />
<br />
Whether one believes "Patty" is real or not, at least the film subject is clearly seen in the PGF. What is NOT clearly seen in the film is pools of blood, Bigfoot hides and bones, gunshots, and bloody hands of Titmus suffering grievous wounds inflicted by a white attack dog. The Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot exists, even if you believe it was a man in a suit. The "Theory Formerly Known as Massacre" is wholly a phantasm.<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7283123#post7283123" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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So Gimlin has had about 4 hours of sleep after a very long and active day, and then he decides to saddle up in the pouring rain and ride all the way back out to the trackway to hunt for bark to put over some tracks? A gesture that is clearly useless anyway with the way the area floods.<br />
The whole "covering the tracks" story makes no sense at all. There's absolutely nothing you can do to preserve the tracks at Bluff Creek in a heavy rain, except film them and cast them, and they had already done that.<br />
Trying to put cardboard or bark over them makes zero sense. Just look at the place and the way it floods.<br />
Even if the soil itself would hold the prints well, the prints would still get filled in with sediment carried by the water.</div>
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Had you ever been to the film site you would know that the PGF was shot on a raised sandbar deposited by a major flood event in 1964. It does NOT flood over that area every year, if ever. It takes a catastrophic event and a major plugging of the stream to flood up that high.<br />
<br />
We were there when National Geographic put survey tape down where they thought the trackway went. It was right down in the creek banks, below the sandbar. A full year later, last summer, the tape was still there under the small rocks where they had placed it. The flooding tendencies of Bluff Creek are, by my experience, exaggerated and often quite misunderstood by those who've never spent real time there.<br />
<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7283558#post7283558" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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I know where the PGF was shot. Why would I need to go there?<br />
I've heard all about how the soil holds prints well.<br />
I've also read Gimlin's descriptions of the heavy rain, swollen creek, and washed out roads that night.<br />
Gimlin said the big flood was in '66.</div>
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Without having been there to the film site you are utterly unqualified to make declarations about its flooding, topography, etc. I am telling you that the sandbar is raised up high above the creek. You can see this in the film itself, but it is clearly evident today. You should not presume to know without walking the ground itself. The upper sand bar is clearly the result of a major flood, not your average winter flows. Like a wash, this little creek can become a raging mini-river when it rains, and quickly; but it takes a lot more than that to raise it way over its banks. Even in heavy rains it stays in its general course, which is defined quite well by near-vertical canyon walls in many places, and by bedrock in others.<br />
<br />
Down where Patterson and Gimlin were camped it would easily have risen up high enough to threaten their exit route. That doesn't mean it rose to the level of washing out their whole camp. Also, mud slides and rock falls are very common on these logging roads built up in the high mountains, as are road wash-outs along the creekside road. There's nothing extreme about that--it happens all the time, without a major flood. Roads are unnatural and are subject to or the cause of erosion. However, I've been going to the film site since 2007, and Bluff Creek since 2001. I have never seen the creek rise to the point where it would wash out the film site sand bar, nor have we seen any sign of washouts up on that sandbar since we've been investigating the site. In fact, this lack of flooding is the reason that all of those densely-growing new trees are taking over the site of the trackway.<br />
<br />
Whatever Gimlin said, he doesn't live around here. His memory said the big flood was in 1966, but it was definitely in 1964. Go here, and click "see all": <a href="http://oldphotoguy.com/p648380344" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://oldphotoguy.com/p648380344</a>, or see here:<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_flood_of_1964" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_flood_of_1964</a>. It was a "100-year event," and some say a "500-year" flood.<br />
<br />
Murphy says "about 4:00 a.m." and Gimlin says about 5:00 a.m., or whatever--these are just estimates and reconstructed memories. Of course Murphy cannot say definitively what time it was, as he wasn't there to begin with, and there are conflicting times given, and most likely no one was checking a watch to begin with.<br />
<br />
Like I said above, the flimsy survey tape left under a rock on the ground survived the entire winter, right there in the creekbed below the film site sand bar. We were very surprised at this. Perhaps in October of this year we will do a test: we'll make some tracks in the upper sand bar approximately the same depth and size of the Patty prints, and then we will pull off some of those big, thick slabs of Douglas fir bark readily available everywhere down there, and we will cover them until we can get back in there in June. I'd bet under such conditions there could still be some sign of the tracks. I don't know if Bob Titmus or others removed the bark when they went there after P and G left. It does seem a bit unlikely that prints would survive a whole winter, just from the rain from above and not flooding, without being covered. My understanding is that when John Green got there in June he did not see well defined tracks, but just the depressions indicating the location of the trackway. With the context of the trees in back and the big log debris and stumps on the sandbar Green sought to find the right location. He didn't need to find perfectly defined tracks to do that.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">The Shrike</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7284890#post7284890" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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What kind of snowpack does Bluff Creek see in a typical winter?</div>
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LOTS of snow on the upper ridges and peaks, which are over 4,000 feet. The snow will cover the entire area down in the creek in a heavy winter. This can be seen on one of those MonsterQuest episodes where they fly in by helicopter with James "Bobo" Fay, and cannot get down to the film's sandbar. It's all covered in snow there. It is not subject to winter-long packs, it seems. It would depend, of course, on the severity of the season any particular year. Generally, around here, 2,300 feet apprx. elevations are NOT above the sticking snow line. Snow tends to stick around the 3,500 to 4,000 foot level. By my experience and word from others, the creek level melts away, while the snow stays up high blocking access. We encountered this just this month and late last month, where we could only get in 15 miles before hitting dense snow pack. One of our group snowshoed up to the ridge top, and got a glimpse of the Bluff Creek watershed/headwaters below. There was NO snow left save up on top.<br />
<br />
Anyway, it is hard for me to say, as no one can get in there in the winter, save by ATV or snowmobile--the roads are closed, or blocked at higher altitudes by snow.<br />
<br />
A good comparison is Willow Creek. It is nearby, with similar conditions, but a lower elevation than the film site. It compares well to the lower end of Bluff Creek, however. We DO get snow here in the town, which is down at the bottom of the river valley; but it does not stick for very long. Up on the mountain, just about five or ten minutes out of town, one will hit the snowline where it sticks. Bluff Creek is similar, from what I've been able to see in the winter. Down at the Klamath River end it can be quite warm, while up at the high ridges it is pretty darn cold.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Well, LTC, you were not there, nor was I. So, really, neither of us really know exactly what happened.<br />
<br />
Re. the bark, though... have you ever been around Douglas fir? Any stump or log from a somewhat large tree will have these thick slabs of bark one may easily pull off. It isn't flimsy. It can be several inches thick and can come off in huge sections at a time. They are great in the wood stove. One of these could easily protect a footprint, and would be durable and heavy enough to stay there all winter.<br />
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The print was there for Laverty to find. What do you mean to imply? That it didn't rain? Or that Laverty hoaxed it? Bluff Creek WILL rise rather quickly when it rains--I've seen it. It's the main watercourse draining a large, steep canyon basin watershed. You're not making much sense here. And oh, did you see the film, by the way?<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">kitakaze</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7285396#post7285396" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Bark floats.<br />
Jim McClarin was there, as you, Steve, no far better than most people here. You know he reported 12-16 tracks in wet sand that were lost in gravel of the creekbed.<br />
Wet sand and torrential rain are not friends.</div>
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Kit, come down here this summer and I'll show you what I am talking about. You can see in the film's early frames the subject walking on a fairly high raised sandbar. Bark will float when suspended in water, but it is highly unlikely the tracks received anything but rain from above, not flooding beneath.<br />
<br />
Laverty and then Titmus were there first, and you can see from the Laverty photos to the Titmus casts an apparent degeneration of the prints' clarity. Titmus cast the ten best tracks, further damaging them. McClarin made it there later, in early November, with Richard Henry. From Henry's drawing of the site the tracks were up quite a ways from the true bed of the creek, away from the flowing water. That is, of course, if we are correct in the site location. The tracks had surely degenerated further by then. By the time McClarin returned in June with John Green, my understanding is that the tracks still extant were mere depressions in the sand. McClarin knew, though, where to look to find the trackway.<br />
<br />
Where does McClarin say this about the number of tracks and them being located on gravel? There is a big difference between creekbed gravel and sandbar sand in Bluff Creek. It is clear in the film that the subject is NOT walking in the creekbed nor on gravel. The subject is moving back toward the trees growing on the hill beyond the historic creek margin, and is walking on fine sandy sediment deposited by the 1964 flood.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7285478#post7285478" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Then why do I see muddy prints, and Roger casting in wet soil?</div>
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If you look at the ground of the sandbar it clearly shows spots that are a different shade due to moisture. Even today there are wet areas up there where water springs up and comes down from the hillside. There are marshy areas and pools up in there. It is not "muddy" in the film. What I see there, anyway, is sand.<br />
<br />
LTC, isn't it obvious that the sandbar is raised up from the creek level, in the early frames, before Patterson runs up the bank? Who disagrees with that? In any case, I have been there, and you have not. We showed all of this in our video series.<br />
<br />
If you care to watch them, look in "favorites" here:<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/bigfootbooks" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/bigfootbooks</a><br />
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Not making sense? How in the world do you think the basic and simple and clear things I've said today don't make sense? Clarify, por favor.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7286471#post7286471" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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It's been obvious what a "sandbar" is since I first heard about Patty.<br />
<br />
What that has to do with the muddy footprints and wet ground I see is entirely beyond me, apparently.<br />
<br />
This is a footprint made in mud.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/14338998eb6cd1897847c5a34660e4674g.jpg" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/...4660e4674g.jpg</a></div>
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LTC, were you to come to Bluff Creek I could show you that what you are seeing is fine alluvial sand. It is dark grey. I have vials of it. It is kind of clay-like when wet. It is not your usual earthy mud full of organic matter.<br />
<br />
AMM, I will try to ask Byrne about the airport issues when I see him tomorrow in Oregon.<br />
<br />
The "globs" prints they originally came to see were up on the freshly plowed dirt road on Blue Creek Mountain. That IS mud, quite distinct from the sand down in the old flood-deposited creekbed sandbars. That road above was under construction and heavily used, so I would not expect much of anything to last. Much of the trackway was driven or plowed over before even Green and Dahinden got there.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7289387#post7289387" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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What in the world makes you think I don't know what the soil at the site is composed of?<br />
<br />
Again you try to tell me what I see...<br />
<br />
If the prints were in sand alone, they certainly wouldn't have withstood any rain at all.<br />
<br />
And they certainly wouldn't have been visible much later.<br />
<br />
And much of the sand would have come away with the casting.<br />
<br />
Be that as it may, the area is wet.<br />
<br />
The area also flooded that night by nearly all accounts.<br />
<br />
The soil deposited there today may be very different from the soil that was there in 1967, anyway.<br />
<br />
It is not up to me to explain the account of the incident...</div>
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What you THINK you see is not necessarily what IS. Isn't that the point skeptics make about the film itself?<br />
<br />
I've been there and held that sandy flood deposit in my hands. I know the nature of the raised sandbar. It is normal for mudslides and higher waters in the creek to occur when it rains fairly hard; what is not common is a 100-year flood event. With certainty I can tell you the PGF sandbar was not over-flooded that night/morning of October 21st, 1967.<br />
<br />
But "see" and think what you like.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7289986#post7289986" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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You can tell me whatever you like...you can be as certain of it as you wish...that doesn't make it accurate.<br />
<br />
The area is very different now. A lot more soil has built up now if I recall correctly from earlier discussions and comparisons of trees.<br />
<br />
IIRC, more soil had built up in the low areas by the time Green and McLarin recreated the film.<br />
<br />
You weren't there in 1967. You don't know much about the place when the film was taken except what you see in the film, and what people who were there at the time said about the area. That is, you know exactly what I know.<br />
<br />
You certainly may know more about the area now, but that doesn't mean much at all.<br />
<br />
Like I said, if your experiments favor the PGF, it won't matter that it's 60 years later. If they don't favor the PGF, it will be because it's 60 years later, and things have changed. I know I can't win that game.<br />
<br />
I live in an area known for it's sandy, red clay soil. It's basically the brick capital of the country because of the red clay soil. I'm very familiar with sandy clay soil and what it's like when it's wet. I'm familiar with even mixes, mostly clay, and mostly sand versions.</div>
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I see it is futile to try to talk to you about this.<br />
<br />
Go to the site up on the sandbar, brush away the layer of forest debris, and there you will see it right beneath: fine, dark grey alluvial sand.<br />
<br />
Some things have changed there, and some things have not.<br />
I have been to the site and researched its history there and with locals, and by interviewing every Bigfoot researcher I can find who might know anything about it; you have not.<br />
<br />
What more can I say? None of us know everything, but some things may indeed be known. Some things are better known by actual on-the-ground investigation, rather than sitting around on some online forum and presuming things.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">AtomicMysteryMonster</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7298618#post7298618" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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BigfootBookman,<br />
How did your meeting with Byrne work out?</div>
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The OREGON SASQUATCH SYMPOSIUM was a a very cool, but very strange event this year.<br />
<br />
Most strange was the chain of defections from the speaker roster. First Gimlin couldn't make it, then we arrived to find that Byrne wasn't going to show up, and Lenny Green the musician was bailing out, and then Scott Nelson the cryptolinguist remained cryptic and distant by also cancelling.<br />
<br />
The beer there was fabulous, though, as were all the nice people of the Church of Bigfoot hanging out in the cathedral of the mountains and trees. Most of the speakers and attendees followed the metaphysical pipers Lee Trippet and Henry Franzoni off into the ethers. The only one with feet firmly planted on the wholly earthly plane was Cliff Barackman. Perhaps it is this tendency that scared Mr. Peter Byrne back into his rabbit hole?<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">clayflingythingy</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7298723#post7298723" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Bigfoot Books,<br />
<br />
In the past you have been upfront in stating that you think you have found the site of the PGF but cannot state with certainty that the site you have idenitfied is the actual PGF site. Is that a fair statement of your past position?<br />
<br />
If so, is it now your position that you know, with certainty, the site of the PGF? If so, what is your evidence? If not, then your statements regarding soil/sand composition of the sandbar are moot, are they not?</div>
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We have ruled out the false and extraneous site claims, and we have narrowed it down to one basic site area constituting one large sandbar. This is the site claimed all along by Perez, based on Dahinden's map mark. Within there are three claimed locations. We want to give all fair consideration experimentally, but all three lack proof of the exact trackway. We are very close to absolute proof if we can verify the background trees and film<br />
dimensions on the spot we are looking at currently.<br />
<br />
The sandbar IS known. The site is fairly large, though. It amounts to analyzing a couple of football fields at most. Do you think I ever seriously considered the MK Davis location, a spot he chose basically only because it "felt right"? No. But we did have to allow for the possibility in order to rule it out of the legitimate picture. See?<br />
<br />
We know the general site, unless it was filmed on Mars or in Yakima. What we are trying to prove is the exact trackway. Besides, the same basic post-1964 flood conditions apply all down Bluff Creek.<br />
<br />
Our analysis is on my blog and in our video series, and upcoming. I am not going to go over all of it again here.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">GT/CS</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7298992#post7298992" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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When flowing water is involved soil composition can change dramatically within a few feet. For example, the soil on the upstream side of a large boulder, or fallen tree, will be different than the soil on the downstream side, so unless you know EXACTLY where the footprints were placed you have no idea what type of soil is involved.</div>
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Water from the creek does not flow up on the sandbar.<br />
We know the range of where the subject walked from the aerial view Dahinden took of the site. It is well back from the creek. At the appropriate distance from the creek and background trees we found a sandy substrate. What more can I say?<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7299307#post7299307" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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You don't know any such thing, imo.<br />
<br />
You believe that you know.<br />
<br />
The place was quite different in a just a few years.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/news-flash-bigfoots-blog-and-bluff.html" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com...and-bluff.html</a></div>
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Tell me how you think normal winter rains can exceed a hundred year flood and I might consider your position. How does water rise six or seven vertical feet and surpass the greatest flood in known history of the area? Frankly you know nothing about this area in a real or experiential way, so why do you continue with this argument? Old topo maps show what I am talking about. This demonstrative information will be forthcoming. Please be patient and refrain from being a jerk and I will be happy to post it here. Look, I'm trying to be helpful, not to prove myself right about everything absolutely.<br />
<br />
What are you saying has changed in the last few years?<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">GT/CS</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7301205#post7301205" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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You don't have a basic understanding of sandbar creation, do you?<br />
Here you go, <b><i>Sandbar creation 101</i></b>.<br />
At one time water flowed over the area in question. Every year soil carried in the water fell onto the area. As the soil built up, over many years, a 'sandbar' was created.<br />
So, I say again, unless you know exactly where the footprints were placed you know nothing about the soil type.</div>
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OF COURSE I understand that. However, you don't seem to understand the nature of Bluff Creek and the effects the 1964 flood event had on it. I'm sure that some form of sandbar existed at the film site before the flood, but the flood was an exceptional event that left lasting marks on the area. This included the destruction of the bridge over the Klamath as the creek burst its banks and created a new channel into the river. There were jams of logs and debris at certain spots along the creek's course that caused backups of water. These are clear and evident HISTORICAL signs left on the land for all to see. Up at the film site there is a distinct crook in the creek caused by geological features. This area was apparently, from all we can tell, plugged up and restricted to the degree that an exceptional amount of sand and gravel was deposited up on a high level above the normal creek level.<br />
<br />
That's all I can really say, that and the fact that one may walk up the creek and see signs of its history everywhere. We are trying to unearth documents showing this from the Forest Service and other agencies, that will hopefully reveal historical features of the creek before and after the flood and the PGF.<br />
<br />
Of course, I am not a professional geologist, hydrologist, or whatever, and I am not claiming to be one. I am doing my best to understand the nature of Bluff Creek and what happened there over time. I have no desire to sit here and argue with those of you who have never been there, whose sole goal seems to be to tear down anyone else's efforts at learning and understanding. If you have something constructive and helpful to add I'd appreciate it, sincerely. Otherwise I'd suggest you refrain from commenting from ignorance at a distance and trying to prove how oh so clever you think you are.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">parnassus</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7300571#post7300571" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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BFBM<br />
I get the impression that you and others aren't fans of Byrne, why is that?<br />
Why wasn't Bob G able to make it?</div>
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It is part of the old feud between Green, Byrne and Dahinden. Byrne once punched out Dahinden out behind a McDonald's restaurant after a meet-up for intended reconciliation that was arranged by Rick Noll. There are current alliances with one or other researcher, and folks do tend sometimes to divide into camps. Some people will not appear at an event if the other enemy faction is represented. You won't see Green and Byrne in the same town, let alone the same room. And then there is the "southern" crowd gathered around MKD who despise anything "Canadian." It's rather odd, sad, amusing, etc.<br />
<br />
I have nothing against Byrne, though you'd probably find me more in the Green camp than the "Beachfoot" Byrne-fan gang.<br />
<br />
Gimlin had his own personal reasons, and it is not my place to divulge them here, to the extent I know of them. Basically: he was busy, and cannot say "yes" to every Bigfoot event out there.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7301389#post7301389" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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BFBM, let's cut to the chase.<br />
Are you claiming a 6 or 7 foot high sandbar during the filming of the PGF?<br />
Or what?<br />
I think you must be, because your posts indicate that there hasn't been much flooding since, to change the height of the sand bar.<br />
That is, the sandbar was created by the "big flood" and it remained that way until this very day.</div>
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From what we can tell the creek has sunk deeper into its bed than conditions in 1967, post 1964 flood. If you stand in the creekbed NOW the height of the sandbar bank (past the gravel creek edges) is at head/eye level in places. It is quite high, but still an obvious old creek-formed sandbar. So, there you have it. For what it is worth.<br />
<br />
I'm told by various locals and old-timers that the site had a lot more gravel and sand in it from back in '64, but that the creek has slowly subsided via erosion and wash-away back down into its bed. There is little water flow other than rain or snow that would affect the sandbar, though it does have seeps and small hillside springs at places. There is a small marshy bog with standing water and ferns right up there. Parts of these areas have subsided. In other places there is higher ground, and in these one may indeed dig a hand in and pull up what seems to be nothing else but original 1964-deposited fine sand. A lot of it is bound in the roots of trees, and becomes visible when these younger alders tip over.<br />
<br />
Cue: Sardonic chuckles from the JREF peanut gallery.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">parnassus</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7302254#post7302254" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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So do you know if he is going to any conventions this year?</div>
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I seriously doubt it, Mr. Parnassus. Gimlin is getting older, and he does have a life beyond "Bigfoot." The Sasquatch Summit was probably enough for one year.<br />
<br />
All you other guys, look: I don't want to argue anymore, and I'd appreciate it if you'd see that I'm ONLY trying to discover the truth(s) about Bluff Creek, just like you. I'm not even trying to "prove" the film is real or whatever. I could be a good resource even for you skeptics if you'd just learn to ask productive and nicely worded questions and drop the straw man attacks.<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">parnassus</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7302254#post7302254" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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So do you know if he is going to any conventions this year?</div>
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Oh, I forgot... There is one sort of "secret" meet-up Bob would surely go to (health permitting), but that is only in the maybe stage at this point. It will be in Willow Creek if it happens.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7303270#post7303270" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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.<br />
<br />
At what point does this become simply the riverbank?</div>
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That is a very crucial question. One of the main reasons the site is "lost" today is the fact that the traditional sandbar is raised, set back from the gravel creek bank, and now covered in young forest. Upon going to the site people naturally look for sand and gravel. That is the current creek bed, not the ground of the film. This mistake has been made most notably by National Geographic in their American Paranormal: Bigfoot, and by Christopher Murphy in 2003 and his subsequent books. They both stood at the creek and didn't bother heading back into the trees to find the real sandbar and background old growth firs as still exist there as seen in the film.<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">AlaskaBushPilot</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7333562#post7333562" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Ha ha! Except for the fact you have ruled out a hoax from consideration, and I mean even the <i>slightest</i> consideration. That is, you are trying to discover the "truth", so long as it has a bigfoot existing.<br />
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It's pretty hilarious to see someone say that there are "troubling" aspects to Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin's story, like namely its impossibility, and pretend they have no capacity to fathom a hoax. Why is someone willing to go to their grave before consideration of a hoax? It is hardly some bizarre belief, as if we were suspending belief in gravity or the earth being round. It is by far the simplest and most complete explanation of what happened. So why is a hoax impermissible?<br />
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Well it is a rhetorical question. Not because I meant it to be, but because there isn't a reasonable answer that can be given for why a person refuses to even consider a hoax.</div>
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ABP, I have to consider that possibility all the time, and I do not rule it out of the picture. What I can say is that the depictions of the area as in Greg Long's book do not match Bluff Creek and the film site area, and I have indeed tested them. Gimlin's description does match very well. We are operating under the hypothesis that the film could have been real; but that is not a dogma. If we found any evidence supporting a possible hoax we would present that, too.<br />
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Long's scenarios may work in Yakima to some degree, but they clearly falter in Bluff Creek itself.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">parnassus</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7334093#post7334093" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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What you mean is that after 35 years Bob H's recollection of the distance from the highway to the camp faded. And that you have cherry-picked some versions of the many stories told by Patterson and Gimlin ( some immediately after the fact) and supplemented them with stories made up by others to come up with a highly improbable if not impossible patchwork tale that might allow a believer to somehow maintain his faith.</div>
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Oh, ok, Parnassus. You're always right. Whatever.<br />
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Let us just leave it at that: Bob Hieronimus' memory has faded, and we can't trust anything he says. He just doesn't recall that he was sitting on his ass in Yakima that weekend watching TV.<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">parnassus</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7334209#post7334209" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Irrational but revealing comment</div>
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It was a joke, O Wise Guy.<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">Vortigern99</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7334304#post7334304" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Your use of the subjunctive tense here is telling: If we <i>found</i>/we <i>would</i> present... as opposed to If we <i>find</i>/we <i>will</i> present....<br />
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By your choice of words here, it is evident that you've already dismissed, or at least minimized to the point of practical non-existence, the possibility that you <i>might</i> find any evidence of a hoax at Bluff Springs.</div>
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Wow, now JREFs are mind readers!!!<br />
AMAZING!<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Gimlin said this summer that they exited via the old creek road south from Louse Camp. Shortly down there something like a half a mile they hit a major new rock and mud slide. Attempting to turn the truck around it mired and slipped in mud, hanging precariously on the ledge with the creek right down below. Gimlin had to walk back and up Onion Mountain road to retrieve a backhoe to pull the truck back up on the road bed. They left out over the mountain road heading down toward Fish Lake and Weitchpec.<br />
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You guys have become accomplished Science Fiction writers in my absence. Impressive... speculations!</div>
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If Gimlin said he had tea with his breakfast this morning you guys still wouldn't believe it, even if we filmed it!<br />
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All he has done is clarify which road they took when. Given that only recently we have proven up that the old creek road even existed in that spot, obviously no one really even knew which roads Gimlin had been talking about all those years.<br />
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We found the old road bed, thin surfacing material still there, the old culverts, and yes even the big rock slide at the point described by Gimlin. He has not walked that old road, now a scant trail, and we have yet to publish our findings. The old "Bluff Creek Trail" ends at this spot heading to near Louse Camp on some maps, including Google Earth.<br />
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LOL, JREFs. Among Bigfooters I am generally The Skeptic.<br />
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Actually, my position is that I don't really know, but it fascinates me. I am agnostic about most human claims to knowledge. I am skeptical of unfounded assertions that strike me as ridiculous, including many made by so-called skeptics. What I do on a daily basis when I am barraged by blobsquatches and stick structure photos is pull out my bullcrap detector. It is clear to me that many here on JREF simply want a straw man to make them feel smarter than the average bear. I am not a fanboy of Gimlin, but I would consider him a good man and a friend.<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">wickie</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7754682#post7754682" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Actually, all we want is REAL proof. Not, " AAh man, I just stepped in poop...must be bigfoot" or sounds of coyotes getting it on... must be bigfoot, or even " My neighbors, cousins, hairdresser saw a 10' monkey-man at a McDonalds drive-thru...must be bigfoot.</div>
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Funny, I want the same thing, and have been kicked out of Bigfoot groups for asking for it.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">AlaskaBushPilot</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7754732#post7754732" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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One of my favorite hobbies is studying manipulative behavior. Bigfoot threads are great because you get to see manipulative behavior about the thing I love most, which is the forest.<br />
<br />
Marketing yourself as "unsure" is an attempt at what the literature calls "plausible deniability". Deceptive people try to frame everything they do in a way that lets them deny what they are doing. So you maximally advocate bigfoot while pretending that you aren't.<br />
<br />
"Maximally" doesn't mean advocating every idiotic hoax. It means a calculus that advocates where it can be gotten away with, and not advocating where it is so idiotic you lose any shred of credibility. So you look at a picture of a cow turd and say "no that isn't a bigfoot", and we're supposed to be impressed with your skepticism.<br />
<br />
A person must get points on these other fora for the personal insults peddled here, for derailing threads, and mocking people for trying to figure out what the pathological liar Roger Patterson and the pathetic sidekick Tonto pulled off. My wife has me limited to two fora and she's right - I'd never get anything done otherwise. But I can imagine.<br />
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But hey - I'm just a loser in a cabin in the woods, so whatever...</div>
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BushMan,<br />
<br />
You seem to have outsmarted yourself.<br />
It is amusing how much you'd like to know while really knowing nothing about me or my motivations. Far from derailing this thread, I have tried to contribute to it from first hand experience, but have been met by snide mockers seeking a cliche to tackle.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">parnassus</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7755490#post7755490" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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BFBM<br />
Can you show us a diagram of the roads you are referring to?</div>
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<a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/2428-the-munns-report/page__view__findpost__p__117308" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/...ost__p__117308</a><br />
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The red and turquoise lines show the way in and the way out as described by Bob Gimlin.<br />
(SEE ATTACHED IMAGE BELOW, or follow link.)<br />
<br />
Gimlin confirmed the entrance and exit routes this summer.<br />
"Down Onion Mountain road to the bottom, turned left."<br />
That would be just outside of Louse Camp, or at the current (not there in 1967) Bluff Creek Bridge near our <i>theorized</i> campsite if that is what he meant by actually hitting the creek level.<br />
<br />
The exit route in turquoise shows the dead end at the mudslide on the old creekside road, where he says their truck got stuck and was hanging precariously above the creek. We investigated this road earlier in the summer this year, and found clear signs of a road: flat roadbed cuts, old culverts, and thin surfacing/sealing material still on the ground in areas.<br />
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Re. the PG camp area, I'd like to clarify: In my interview with Jim McClarin he was unsure of whether the horse signs (hay and manure) found at the current "bat boxes" area were really the remains of the guys' camp. He admitted it could have been further downstream, and that perhaps that location closer to the actual film site could have been an assumption. We took clues, sparse at best, from Barbara Wasson's book, and tried to find evidence of a camp somewhere a half mile or so upstream from the current bridge over Bluff Creek. We just happened to find a piece of rebar embedded in the ground at the first and best level spot in that distance range. We thought that maybe, just maybe, Rene might have put it there when he was surveying the film site in 1977 (and supposedly put metal bars in the ground to mark it) with Barbara Wasson in tow. We do not think this "half mile from the bridge over Bluff Creek" statement came from Gimlin, as Bob was not even aware of a bridge being there during his time in Bluff Creek. So, how would he have known to refer to it? On the other hand, Dahinden was in some kind of intimate relationship with Wasson at the time, and actually would have gone to the site with her right up from the bridge, inevitably passing through the possible camp site area. I still think that Rene was Wasson's source on this matter, Parnassus, but I admit it is far from proven. The Wasson quote is ambiguous, and she may have been combining source material from Rene telling the story about Bob Gimlin, not drawing the location directly from Gimlin.<br />
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From my blog:<br />
<i>We knew from Barbara Wasson's book, Sasquatch Apparitions (pg. 68), that the following was the case, in this slightly grammatically ambiguous sentence:<br /><br />"Bob Gimlin awoke [on October 20th, the day of the filming] one sunny day in their camp some one half miles or so north of where the bridge ABOVE Notice Creek crosses Bluff Creek."<br /><br />Deciphering that sentence we knew it could not be referring to the Notice Creek Bridge, but rather this one. The bridge ON Notice Creek does not CROSS Bluff Creek, but rather Notice Creek. So, we took it that the bridge ABOVE Notice Creek HAD to be the one that is one mile north of Louse Camp. Confirming this, and comparing it with Robert Leiterman's GPS reading from the previous day we found that the half mile up Wasson mentions, combined with the 2.5 miles up from their camp to the film site generally mentioned by Bob Gimlin, made a perfect match with Robert's apprx. 3 mile result. Hence, they could not have camped at the Louse Camp area--that would have made it a nearly 4 mile ride.</i><br />
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Also, my neighbor, Jay Rowland, has confirmed to me that his job kept him camped at Louse Camp all summer and early fall that year, 1967. He was actually there as resident attendant to watch equipment, etc., and Lyle Laverty was with him. He never saw Patterson and Gimlin up there. They could not have camped to near Louse Camp, then.<br />
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The Jim McClarin interview:<br />
<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/informal-interview-with-jim-mcclarin.html" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com...-mcclarin.html</a><br />
Excerpt:<br />
<i>Jim McClarin September 19 at 6:06pm<br />As I recall we were able to drive down to Roger and Bob's camp downstream from the site. When I went there in '67 after returning from BC and the showing of the film to the science gathering, we saw hay leavings where the horses had been kept as well as plenty of droppings and hoofprints along the way up to the film site. I think the film site may have been between 1/4 and 1/2 mile upstream from the camp. Coulda been further. I'm not certain but, since we went in a jeep, we may have 4-wheeled it in to the site. Tere was no mistaking the site since the prints were still quite visible, it matched the scenery from the film, and plaster bits remained from Bob Titmus casting a series of the tracks.<br /><br />Steven Streufert September 19 at 7:44pm<br />That's puzzling. There is a camp site right down from the film site, about a quarter of a mile, but Roger and Bob are supposed to have camped 2 or 2.5 miles downstream, according to various accounts. Barbara Wasson said the camp was a little ways north of the bridge over Bluff Creek, down near Louse Camp. Just yesterday we went there and found the only spot around where someone could camp, so we thought perhaps we'd found it. The problem is, all the books say so many different things. We're pretty sure of the site of the film, but it seems the controversy will never go away.<br />Wasn't there a dirt "road" all the way up the creek? It seems to me much of it would have to have gone right through the creek, or ford across it constantly as it winds back and forth against it's banks.<br /><br />Jim McClarin September 20 at 6:29am<br />OK, it's possible that they were not camped where I thought they had been camped. But where we saw hay leavings and piles of horse dung at the point where a dirt road led down to the creek bed was nowhere near 2 - 2.5 miles downstream of the film site. As I recall we drove right to the apparent camp site without any false leads so I must have had explicit directions from Roger or perhaps from Al Hodgson who Roger had talked to following their exit from Bluff Creek. I'm not sure if this was before or after their drive to the McKinleyville airport to ship the film back to Washington.</i><br />
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Had Bob Hieronimus gone to the film site up that creek road some three miles from the ford (now bridge) area, he surely would have remembered it as being an arduous ride. It was not a short distance off a comfy road as I recall him describing it in Long's book. Anyway, next year we will produce a video following Bob H. directions into and around the Bluff Creek area. It is my feeling that his directions put one somewhere near Fish Lake, at least some 20 miles from the film site on rugged dirt roads most of the way.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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There was a road up the creek from where the bridge is now. Many locals have told me that, including my main source on these matters, Al Hodgson. The canyon narrows in that spot, so there is nowhere else the creekside road could have gone up there. We are still looking for an old map showing the creek road all the way up. There have obviously been changes in the creek there as it narrows down to the bridge area. However, we found only one flat and large enough area near the bridge that would be adequate for a camp including truck and horses. There was a lot more sand and gravel back then, which is observable all along the creek north of Louse. There remain old sandbars, and it is mainly there and in small hillside cuts that signs of the old road are evident. If P & G camped right by the bridge it could be that the campsite has washed away. They would, though, have been seen by workers if they were that close to the main road.<br />
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If they were anywhere near Louse they would have been heard and seen. The hillside is steep from there up the mile to the crossing, and that would have prevented creek access. Camping up from the current bridge would have given them privacy from the work zone up Onion Mountain road from Louse to the job site on Blue Creek Mountain. Rowland told me he never saw them, so I seriously doubt they were anywhere near main roads during daylight.<br />
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The creek crossing is where the old road went right up along the creek, but drawing a diagram of that detail is impossible without an eyewitness from back then on site now, unless one wants to simply guess. The fact is there are sparse and conflicting accounts, and guessing in an informed way is about the best we can do about the camp site location.<br />
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Roger Knights has mentioned a source that puts the camp just downstream from the current bridge, which is plausible, but I have yet to pin that source down.<br />
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Just because there are quotes from Gimlin in that chapter from Wasson does not mean that the entire accounting came solely from Gimlin. I don't see how you feel justified in saying so. It starts with a brief bio of Roger, obviously cobbled from varied research sources not just Bob, and then it moves on to the filming event drawing largely from Bob at that point. The later part coming from Gimlin makes sense, as after all Bob was there. Bob was never there, however, at the time there was a bridge over Bluff Creek in the area in question. Hence, the obvious source for the sentence about the camp location is Dahinden. McClarin or Green are the only others in Bigfooting who could conceivably have had a clue, but Dahinden not only was apparently in a relationship with Wasson, but also knew Patterson well enough to have figured out the camp location. No one knew more about the area in regard to the film than Rene did. It remains a mystery, however, when all the accounts are weighed.<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7776681#post7776681" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Just out of curiosity, how do we know this?</div>
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Christopher Murphy had the print of this photo, from one of the Dahinden sons, on loan. He told me that "1971" was written on back. The landmark trees and stumps are clearly identifiable in the image. Rene was there on site in 1971, 1972, 1977, and other later trips.<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7779678#post7779678" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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That's all we have to verify the date, and it's only the year?</div>
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Those years, 1971, 1972 and 1977 are when Rene is known to have made trips up there. Murphy conceded that it might have been taken on the 1972 trip, but that "1971" was written on the back of the image. The aerial shot could not have been made in 1977, as from those (not publishable) photos one may see that the seedlings have really grown up rather large already, and are starting to take over the sandbar.<br />
<br />
Re. River's theory (I've been conversing with him about it) I can only say that camera perspective is quite deceptive. With our site survey map, and some optical help from Bill Munns, we should be able to document the track-ways of both the subject and the cameraman as in the actual film, represented on the site as it is found today. Can we really see tracks in an image taken nearly four years later? I doubt it. This may just be "blobtracksquatching."<br />
<br />
Our experience in making this site survey is that it is very difficult indeed to see in a way that replicates the camera perspective of the film. Many optical illusions exist in the film, which appear quite different when you are actually on the site walking among the stumps and log piles.<br />
<br />
See our map and film site photos here:<br />
<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/patterson-gimlin-film-site-rediscovered.html" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com...iscovered.html</a><br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7781785#post7781785" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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<a href="http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/reneinwalla.htm" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://www.bigfootencounters.com/art...eneinwalla.htm</a></div>
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That article is from 1987 and by then it is true he'd been back, and again in the 1990s, too. However, I have no dates or documentation of those trips. I'm trying now to gain access to the Dahinden archives, and perhaps have some of it housed here in the Willow Creek Museum. Perhaps it will reveal more. Barely any of that stuff has reached the public in ten years, so I hope some of it was preserved. Larry Lund thinks it is in a basement or closet somewhere. Lund has some boxes, but it seems to be all of Rene's pop cultural detritus. As I understand it, from things John Green has said, Rene had troubles getting into the USA until the 1971 trip, but I may be wrong about the date. He was in the USA when the film was shot, in SF promoting the Blue Creek Mountain tracks; but he came to Willow Creek and then directly to Yakima, passing up a grand chance to witness the site at a prime early time. Rene's family do not seem too keen on Bigfoot these days, but they did appear at John Green's Sasquatch Summit this year... a favorable sign.<br />
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Tell us the REAL story then, Bobbie.<br />
<br />
BTW, dead Douglas fir, of which there was plenty on that sandbar, has bark that peels away in large, heavy slabs. The sandbar was elevated above the creek flow and not subject to being washed out in normal years. What record do you have of flooding in Crescent City for that date? Could you be thinking of 1964? Plus, those aren't white birch on the sandbar. Those are red alder and broad leaf maples. The background from the early part of the film changes because the camera angle changes. Murphy told me he got that aerial image from Dahinden's son, and it never appeared in print until after Rene was dead. I could go on, but I don't have all day.<br />
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We left two test tracks on the sandbar this fall. We will see if they remain in June.<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7798060#post7798060" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Well, Roger is casting in mud, and the trackway appears to go through mud. So I kinda' think water may have been in the area.<br />
You left tracks?<br />
How deep were they?<br />
How did you make them?<br />
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First, it is not mud on that sandbar, but fairly fine sand mixed with small gravel, with a thin layer generally of organic forest material. See the photos below.<br />
<br />
There IS water, moisture in places, on the sandbar, where it springs up from the watertable below. There are small bogs on the sandbar in places, where ferns have taken over, mostly on the lower part to the west of the film site. Also, it is apparent that there is some runoff from the hillside behind, as it has caused mild erosion at the base of the hill. These test prints were made where it is very, very unlikely there will be any over-wash or flooding from the creek, unless there is a monumental weather year. We are talking an elevation of around six feet up from the current creek level. The creek has eaten its way down into the gravel since 1964's massive deposits. It would take another very major flood like that to crest over its banks to that degree.<br />
<br />
We left tracks made by my boot, size 11, stomped and wriggled into the sand, one to about one inch of depth, another to about two inches. These were done in spots with no tree cover so that we could imitate the conditions apprx. 1967 when the sandbar was predominantly cleared out by the 1964 flood. We marked them with flags. More than likely no one will make it down there before we do in the coming late spring, when the snow melts from the roads. The roads in were closed and then snowed over shortly after we were there on October 30th.<br />
<br />
Below I've also included an image of the "big tree" as it is today.<br />
<br />
Re. the Gimlin/Cantrall account, I'd say we do not know if Gimlin meant they were following these tracks on the <i>same day</i> as the filming. The story goes that they were cruising the ridge roads at night (this would be Onion Mountain, Blue Creek Mountain, Lonesome Ridge or 12N13), and riding up the creekbed road that day. MK doesn't really know what he is talking about, re. the soil types, as up on the hills one would not find sand and gravel as in the creekbed, but rather the dusty mud such as that in which the famous 1967 ridgeline trackways were deposited. I'm not trying to make excuses for stories told here, but I'd really like to know what the context of the conversation was and what the exact words of Gimlin were before I'd make any hay from this tale. I understand Thom is not talking publicly, but he may tell me if I ask nicely.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7799839#post7799839" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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I clearly see a couple of "Patty tracks" that were made in mud.<br />
<br />
This one, for example.<br />
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<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/14338998eb6cd1897847c5a34660e4675g.jpg" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/...4660e4675g.jpg</a><br />
<br />
Plus the one Roger is casting in the mud. Presuming he's casting right after filming Patty, which may not be accurate.</div>
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Call it mud if you like, but it is wet sand. Not beach sand, but as Parnassus says, it has an almost clay like quality of plasticity when moist, and holds its form well. It is grey with a slight blueish hint if wet. Look at my test tracks above. That is the same material. In some areas it is really very fine siltation, and it would have had more fine grain closer to the big flood.<br />
<br />
I can send a tiny sample of real PGF site Bluff Creek sand to anyone here providing a self addressed stamped envelope and a very small plastic baggie. Bigfoot Books, P O Box 1167, Willow Creek CA 95573. It would be nice for me if you would also mention your JREF user name in a note.<br />
<br />
My test tracks were made just south a few yards from the spot River is claiming for the track casts Patterson took.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">River</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7800922#post7800922" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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I really like the test....<br />
I think there is a lot more information to be gained even at this late date. Some even still from the site.</div>
</div>
And, we are STILL looking for the massacred Bigfoot bones buried in the sandbar in that very same area you are looking at, River. Let me know if you find a femur protruding from the sand, OK?<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7803302#post7803302" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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It's wet clay/sand, which is mud, imo. I live in the middle of NC, which is known for it's red clay and sand soil. So well known, that brick making is a major industry around here. When this stuff gets wet, no one calls it wet sand because it has some sand mixed with it. It's called mud. It holds prints very well, and for a long time.</div>
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One of us has been there, and one has not.<br />
<br />
It consists of fine particulate rock, otherwise known as sand and gravel. There is very little organic material in the substance of which the sandbar consists. I would not call it mud. It is not sticky, gooey, or slimy. It is grainy. It is surprising that plants can survive in it long enough to get their roots down to real soil and the water table below.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">GT/CS</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7804506#post7804506" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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mud [mʌd]<br />
n<br />
1. (Earth Sciences / Geological Science) a fine-grained soft wet deposit that occurs on the ground after rain, at the bottom of ponds, lakes, etc.<br />
<a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/MUD" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://www.thefreedictionary.com/MUD</a><br />
(mŭd)<br />
n.<br />
1.Wet, sticky, soft earth, as on the banks of a river.<br />
<a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/mud" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://www.answers.com/topic/mud</a><br />
It's mud.<br />
It's also obvious that there is absolutley nothing interesting going on in the world of bigfoot if we're arguing over what is or is not mud.<br />
Maybe it's time for another good hoax, other than the Ketchum nonsense.</div>
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Gee whiz,<br />
<br />
sand (snd)<br />
n.<br />
1. a. Small loose grains of worn or disintegrated rock.<br />
b. Geology A sedimentary material, finer than a granule and coarser than silt, with grains between 0.06 and 2.0 millimeters in diameter.<br />
<br />
AND<br />
<br />
Definition of SAND<br />
1 a : a loose granular material that results from the disintegration of rocks, consists of particles smaller than gravel but coarser than silt, and is used in mortar, glass, abrasives, and foundry molds<br />
b : soil containing 85 percent or more of sand and a maximum of 10 percent of clay; broadly : sandy soil<br />
<br />
AND (<a href="http://geology.about.com/od/sediment_soil/a/aboutsand.htm" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://geology.about.com/od/sediment.../aboutsand.htm</a>)<br />
<br />
Technically, sand is merely a size category. Sand is particulate matter that's larger than silt and smaller than gravel. Different specialists set different limits for sand:<br />
Engineers call sand anything between 0.074 and 2 millimeter, or between a U.S. standard #200 sieve and a #10 sieve.<br />
Soil scientists classify grains between 0.05 and 2 mm as sand, or between sieves #270 and #10.<br />
Sedimentologists put sand between 0.062 mm (1/16 mm) and 2 mm on the Wentworth scale, or 4 to –1 units on the phi scale, or between seives #230 and #10. In some other nations a metric definition is used instead, between 0.1 and 1 mm.<br />
In the field, unless you carry a comparator with you to check against a printed grid, sand is anything big enough to feel between the fingers and smaller than a matchhead.<br />
From a geological viewpoint, sand is anything small enough to be carried by the wind but big enough that it doesn't stay in the air, roughly 0.06 to 1.5 millimeters. It indicates a vigorous environment.<br />
<br />
VERSUS<br />
<br />
"MUD"<br />
1: a slimy sticky mixture of solid material with a liquid and especially water; especially: soft wet earth.<br />
Synonyms: guck (or gook), mire, muck, ooze, slime, slop, sludge, slush.<br />
(<a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mud" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mud</a>)<br />
<br />
There IS a difference.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7804907#post7804907" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Been where? <img alt="" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="big grin" /><br />
I think I have seen about 11 different claims of having found the location. <img alt="" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="big grin" /></div>
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Going to BLUFF CREEK would be a start, LTC.<br />
<br />
However, we are the ONLY ones who have done more than just wag their mouths about it. Look at our site grid map, perhaps.<br />
<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/patterson-gimlin-film-site-rediscovered.html" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;" target="_blank">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com...iscovered.html</a><br />
We have found and documented the true film site, not just expressed an opinion like MK Davis or whomever.<br />
<br />
BFBM</div>
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<tr><td class="thead" id="currentPost" style="background-color: #ececec; background-image: url(http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/misc/subcatbg.gif); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-top-style: solid; border-width: 1px 0px 1px 1px; color: #5b5d64; font-family: tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; padding: 4px;"><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post7805197"><img alt="Old" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/statusicon/post_old.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="Old" /></a> 30th November 2011, 04:30 PM</td><td align="right" class="thead" style="background-color: #ececec; background-image: url(http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/misc/subcatbg.gif); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-bottom-style: solid; border-right-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-right-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-top-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 0px; color: #5b5d64; font-family: tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; padding: 4px;"> #<a href="http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7805197&postcount=7617" id="postcount7805197" name="7617" rel="nofollow" style="color: #5b5d64;" target="new"><strong>7617</strong></a></td></tr>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">LTC8K6</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7804988#post7804988" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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What are the odds that 40 years later, the soil is the same composition?</div>
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That sandbar was created such as it is by the 1964 Flood. It has been our observation and result of much research that the marks of that weather event are evident all along the creek, some having been left more or less unchanged since that time. Obviously, some things change, and others remain. The salvage logging of 1965-66 left many marks, for instance, that are still there all along the upper creek area. From everything we have been able to observe there is no evidence of over-wash of that sandbar since before the PGF. It has lost some of its edge gravel/sand due to creek meandering, but the creek has sunk far down below the high flood deposits. There are no streams or major erosive factors flowing on the sandbar. It is substantively the same, and consists of the same base materials as it was found to have in 1967.<br />
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I'm not making outrageous claims here. We have been there and done the best we can as amateurs to understand the processes of geology, forest regrowth, and other such factors. I'm simply trying to share that information here, not argue about mud. It is simply a fact, though, that that sandbar is not made of gooey, sticky muck, high-organic plant matter content, or whatever. It is a geological, alluvial deposit that remains consistent with the history we know of Bluff Creek. It is sand and gravel.<br />
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I do find it presumptuous of some who have never been there to make proclamations and theories from afar, without full knowledge, sitting at their computers on Google Earth, or staring at cruddy low-resolution photographs and degraded film clips. It is that simple. I'm not proposing the existence of an unknown primate here, but just a 47 year old sandbar. I'm trying to be <i>helpful</i> to you all by providing my perspective.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">GT/CS</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7805187#post7805187" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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What is the significance of finding the site?<br />
I understand finding it is fun and cool and such, but what good is it other than to charge footers a fee to see it?</div>
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The significance is that we have tried to establish truth and reality, beyond speculation and conjecture. This is, I have to say, a difficult thing to do when working with Bigfoot issues. We have studied history and natural processes, and understood the area and the events that happened in it all the better, which to me, at least, is enjoyable in that it is my home area, and a rather beautiful place in which to spend one's time. I think we have shown that things are knowable, and that knowledge is not just the product of theory and opinion.<br />
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If Bill Munns or whomever can use the site location and measurements we have come up with, or any other factors of that environment, to better understand the film and its subject, all the better. This might be helpful to believers or skeptics, and I frankly do not care which. We've put our stakes down there, and we have better evidence for our location and position than anyone in the world at this point. It is a study in process, and I'm still fascinated. That's really all there is to it. I can only add that it would be grand to talk to Rene Dahinden's ghost at this point.<br />
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What is clearly of no use is trying to talk reasonably to the few here who think they own the place, and don't know the difference between sand and mud or an ass and a mule. I never claimed anything about the test prints, which I made as a lark, and actually at the request of a JREF member. Oh well, I tried. But some here are just plain illogical anti-bigfoot bigots who can't even accept geological information from a first-hand source on the ground in a place they've never been but about which they love to proclaim knowledge.<br />
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He who crows loudly from ignorance does worse than the liar.<br />
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<tr><td class="thead" id="currentPost" style="background-color: #ececec; background-image: url(http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/misc/subcatbg.gif); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-top-style: solid; border-width: 1px 0px 1px 1px; color: #5b5d64; font-family: tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; padding: 4px;"> 1st December 2011, 01:31 PM</td><td align="right" class="thead" style="background-color: #ececec; background-image: url(http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/misc/subcatbg.gif); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-bottom-style: solid; border-right-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-right-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-top-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 0px; color: #5b5d64; font-family: tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; padding: 4px;"> #<a href="http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7807816&postcount=7633" id="postcount7807816" name="7633" rel="nofollow" style="color: #5b5d64;" target="new"><strong>7633</strong></a></td></tr>
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Ugh. Hopeless.<br />
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All you guys want is a straw man. I could tell you that the sky is blue over Willow Creek today and you would not believe me. I've tried to talk in good faith with you guys, but rather than skepticism I only encounter prejudicial bias and bad faith mockery. A whole lot of the arguments made here are every bit as speculative and imaginative, illogical and irrational, as any of those from the Bigfooters, frankly. I have no problem talking with real skeptics. In fact, I am one. It is not that which bothers me. What I encounter here is bad faith discussion. What I see here is not a sincere skeptical pursuit of the truth and reality, but rather a gluttony for schadenfreude, a desperate desire among a small clique of petty intellectual bullies to feel superior to someone, anyone... so it may as well be anyone who even considers the<i>possibility</i> of such a thing as Bigfoot. Ask River, here--I have no problem with skepticism and critical analysis. You guys are welcome to your mud. I'll take the sand.<br />
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I never made any claims that my footprints made on the Bluff Creek sandbar were some kind of "scientific study." I did it for amusement and mild curiosity. It is only meant to "test" one of the small stories in the annals of the PGF; and since a few people asked me to do it, I did.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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Originally Posted by <strong style="color: #606060;">parnassus</strong> <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7808034#post7808034" rel="nofollow" style="color: #666666;"><img alt="View Post" border="0" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="View Post" /></a></div>
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Bfbm<br />
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Oh..... come..... now...<br />
Someone who posts 45 (!!!) videos of himself (!!!) and links to them constantly really is in no position to criticize the motivations of others on the Internet; amirite??</div>
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It is NOT about "me." What your problem is, "Parnassus," I suppose I will never know. Should we produce videos with no people in them? That would be very entertaining.<br />
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You've been playing that same ad hominem harp at me since I first encountered you on the old BFF. Give it a rest already. You make John Prine look bad.<br />
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I give up. This is ridiculous. I'll leave you to chew on all your old tired bones.<br />
Anyone wanting to contact me can do it via PM. I'm done with trying to be nice with you guys.<br />
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BFBM</div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-30597561986849173452014-03-21T16:23:00.000-07:002014-03-21T16:23:51.800-07:00A Miscellany of Stuff I Posted on the BIGFOOT FORUMS re. the PGF Site<div id="profile_content_main" style="background-color: white; color: #5a5a5a; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.3; margin: 0px 0px 20px; min-height: 75px; padding: 0px;">
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<span class="fn nickname">BigfootBookman</span></h1>
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<span class="post_id right ipsType_small desc blend_links" style="color: #777777; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 4px;"><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/?view=findpost&p=615774" rel="bookmark" style="color: #777777; text-decoration: none;" title="The Munns Report: post #615774">#615774</a></span><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;">The Munns Report</a></h3>
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<img class="ipsUserPhoto ipsUserPhoto_tiny" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/av-37.jpg?_r=0" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; border: 1px solid rgb(213, 213, 213); box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; height: 20px; padding: 1px; vertical-align: middle; width: 20px;" /> Posted by <span class="author vcard"><a class="url fn name ___hover___member _hoversetup" data-ipb="noparse" hovercard-id="37" hovercard-ref="member" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/user/37-bigfootbookman/" id="anonymous_element_7" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;" title="">BigfootBookman</a></span> on <abbr class="published" style="border: 0px;" title="2012-08-02T00:46:18+00:00">01 August 2012 - 04:46 PM</abbr></div>
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The only filmed release of this expedition will be as part of the BLUFF CREEK FILM SITE PROJECT. Those should appear in late summer or early fall. Drop that title into YouTube if you haven't seen our videos. This was a fully independent, non-commercial and unbiased labor of love for all of us. Before there was "Finding Bigfoot" there were two guys named Cliff and Bobo, and they were friends of mine. They helped me by confirming things that they knew about the site, such as that Gimlin had tentatively identified the general location back in 2003. Daniel Perez, of course, has always been a great resource on history for me. We did the best we could with our experience and local expertise to find and document the site and validate or refute aspects of the claims about the history of Bigfoot in Bluff Creek. We wanted those who had helped us along the way to be there, and we also wanted those who could with their own expertise take it farther than we could to the next step. Having Bill Munns come up there with us occurred to us as a natural idea way back in 2009, and it was quite a glorious day when he finally made it there and got to see the Big Trees on the true film site. Now the data is in his hands, as well as a geologist who is doing independent surveying analysis on the site, and our own work is essentially done. I know already that Bill is the right guy for the job going forward, and from his work we should at last have reliable information about the action and subject seen in the Patterson-Gimlin Film.<br /><br />This link will sort BLUFF CREEK FILM SITE PROJECT by most recent videos first, for those who are interested. Just scroll down past the Coast to Coast AM links to find them.<br /><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videos&search_query=BLUFF+CREEK+FILM+SITE+PROJECT&search_sort=video_date_uploaded" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">http://www.youtube.c...o_date_uploaded</a><br /><br />More info covering the whole "re-discovery" process may be found on my blog, of course (<a class="bbc_url" href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com</a>)<br /><br />Here is an image of Bill just after he first saw the Big Tree, and then started pointing out the others seen in the background of the PGF.<br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-48454500-1343868836.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-6304-0-34619900-1395442688" rel="lightbox[615774]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Munns at Big Tree.jpg - Size: 268.23KB"><img alt="Munns at Big Tree.jpg" class="attach" height="300" id="ipb-attach-img-6304-0-34619900-1395442688" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-48454500-1343868836_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><br /><em class="bbc">Click to Enlarge</em><br /><br />Best,<br />Steve/BFBM<br /><a class="bbc_url" href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/</a><br /><div class="rep_bar clearfix right" id="rep_post_615774" style="float: right; margin: 6px 4px; padding: 0px; white-space: nowrap;">
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<span class="post_id right ipsType_small desc blend_links" style="color: #777777; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 4px;"><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/?view=findpost&p=615047" rel="bookmark" style="color: #777777; text-decoration: none;" title="The Munns Report: post #615047">#615047</a></span><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;">The Munns Report</a></h3>
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<img class="ipsUserPhoto ipsUserPhoto_tiny" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/av-37.jpg?_r=0" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; border: 1px solid rgb(213, 213, 213); box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; height: 20px; padding: 1px; vertical-align: middle; width: 20px;" /> Posted by <span class="author vcard"><a class="url fn name ___hover___member _hoversetup" data-ipb="noparse" hovercard-id="37" hovercard-ref="member" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/user/37-bigfootbookman/" id="anonymous_element_8" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;" title="">BigfootBookman</a></span> on <abbr class="published" style="border: 0px;" title="2012-07-31T01:59:03+00:00">30 July 2012 - 05:59 PM</abbr></div>
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Bill, it was truly a great thing to have you come to the film site. I hope that the data we all retrieved will advance your cause, and lead to real knowledge (at last) about the PGF and its subject as it moved through the site. Having you, Daniel Perez, and the others come up and join us in the BLUFF CREEK FILM SITE PROJECT was truly an honor. We very much look forward to your results.<br /><br />I'll have more photos and information on my blog soon, but for now here is a group photo from down in Louse Camp.<br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-47684000-1343699329.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-6272-0-64805200-1395442688" rel="lightbox[615047]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Bluff Creek Trip GROUP SHOT.jpg - Size: 90.06KB"><img alt="Bluff Creek Trip GROUP SHOT.jpg" class="attach" height="300" id="ipb-attach-img-6272-0-64805200-1395442688" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-47684000-1343699329_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><br />Back row: Todd Hale, Tom Yamarone, Steven Streufert, Ian C., Daniel Perez, Rowdy Kelley, Terry Smith, Scott McClean, Cliff Barackman<br />Front row: James Bobo Fay, Francis and Robert Leiterman, Bill Munns<br />Foreground: Monkey and Pre<br /><br />Here is another, on the site right on the trackway, to include all members...<br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-01544400-1343699692.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-6273-0-64828000-1395442688" rel="lightbox[615047]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Group Shot at Site.jpg - Size: 135.84KB"><img alt="Group Shot at Site.jpg" class="attach" height="300" id="ipb-attach-img-6273-0-64828000-1395442688" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-01544400-1343699692_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><br />Cliff Barackman, Ian C., Rowdy Kelley, Todd Hale, Jamie Snowhorse, Robert and Francis Leiterman, Bart Cutino, Terry Smith, James Bobo Fay, Bill Munns and myself.<br />(Missing Richard L., the retired USFS hydrologist who joined us the first day, and Scott and Tom who stayed in camp.)<br /><br />Here are the original BLUFF CREEK FILM SITE PROJECT guys, reunited with Ian's return...<br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-48643400-1343699919.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-6274-0-64840700-1395442688" rel="lightbox[615047]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Bluff Creek Project GROUP 2012.jpg - Size: 123.82KB"><img alt="Bluff Creek Project GROUP 2012.jpg" class="attach" height="400" id="ipb-attach-img-6274-0-64840700-1395442688" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-48643400-1343699919_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><br />Steve, Ian, Robert and Rowdy, in front of the Big Trees.<br /><br />Images will enlarge if clicked.<br /><br />Best regards,<br />BFBM<br />Steven Streufert<br /><a class="bbc_url" href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/</a><br /><div class="rep_bar clearfix right" id="rep_post_615047" style="float: right; margin: 6px 4px; padding: 0px; white-space: nowrap;">
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<span class="post_id right ipsType_small desc blend_links" style="color: #777777; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 4px;"><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/?view=findpost&p=596543" rel="bookmark" style="color: #777777; text-decoration: none;" title="The Munns Report: post #596543">#596543</a></span><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;">The Munns Report</a></h3>
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<img class="ipsUserPhoto ipsUserPhoto_tiny" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/av-37.jpg?_r=0" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; border: 1px solid rgb(213, 213, 213); box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; height: 20px; padding: 1px; vertical-align: middle; width: 20px;" /> Posted by <span class="author vcard"><a class="url fn name ___hover___member _hoversetup" data-ipb="noparse" hovercard-id="37" hovercard-ref="member" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/user/37-bigfootbookman/" id="anonymous_element_9" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;" title="">BigfootBookman</a></span> on <abbr class="published" style="border: 0px;" title="2012-06-04T00:58:45+00:00">03 June 2012 - 04:58 PM</abbr></div>
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Thank you, Bill.<br />I certainly do not wish to violate the rules of this Forum.<br /><br />Here is an image that shows how we first started seeing with surety that we must have found the right spot, beyond just finding the "Big Trees" and some stumps.<br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-94320800-1338771318.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-5774-0-98729400-1395442688" rel="lightbox[596543]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Leiterman PGF Comparison with Aerial medium.jpg - Size: 344.92KB"><img alt="Leiterman PGF Comparison with Aerial medium.jpg" class="attach" height="225" id="ipb-attach-img-5774-0-98729400-1395442688" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-94320800-1338771318_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><br /><em class="bbc">Click to Enlarge. Red lettering and map drawn by Robert Leiterman.</em><br /><br />The mathematical proof done by an independent geologist that the site we surveyed and the "aerial" photo by Dahinden taken in 1971 are the same spot is available in the link I posted right above. We no longer have any doubts, but we look forward to other views from people like Bill Munns this summer. To be clear, what we sought in the survey were OLD FEATURES that were not part of the new growth. Almost all new trees on the nearly fully still-extant sandbar are from after the 1964 flood, and so should not have been there in 1967. We noted all of these on the map, and eliminated the rest. We noted all old-growth trees that mattered as well, knowing they were older than 44 years. This would give us, we hoped, a view of the sandbar as it was when Roger Patterson put his viewfinder upon it. Conditions today vary mainly in new trees obstructing clear view of the site. The sandbar is nearly all there as it was, save for the front or southern side, which has received some erosion due to the creek course leveling down from the higher post-flood conditions. Bob Gimlin noted this when he was there. However, the track-way and camera positions are still there.<br /><br />BFBM<br /><br /><div class="citation" style="background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(246, 246, 246)), to(rgb(229, 229, 229))); border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-style: solid; border-right-width: 2px; border-top-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-top-left-radius: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 2px; font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; overflow-x: auto; padding: 8px 10px;">
'Bill', on 03 Jun 2012 - 5:14 PM, said:<a class="snapback right" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=596531" rel="citation" style="color: #225985; float: right; margin-right: 5px; padding: 1px 0px 1px 1px; text-decoration: none;"><img src="http://bigfootforums.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" /></a></div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote built" data-author="'Bill'" data-cid="596531" data-time="1338768868" style="background-color: #f7f7f7; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-bottom-left-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; border-bottom-width: 2px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-width: 2px; border-style: none solid solid; border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; font-size: 12px; margin: 0px; overflow-x: auto; padding: 10px;">
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Steve:<br />Mike G was referring to the "PattyBob" stuff, which has nothing to do with my report.<br />Site analysis, like your excellent work, is both relevent and welcomed.<br />Bill</div>
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<img class="ipsUserPhoto ipsUserPhoto_tiny" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/av-37.jpg?_r=0" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; border: 1px solid rgb(213, 213, 213); box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; height: 20px; padding: 1px; vertical-align: middle; width: 20px;" /> Posted by <span class="author vcard"><a class="url fn name ___hover___member _hoversetup" data-ipb="noparse" hovercard-id="37" hovercard-ref="member" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/user/37-bigfootbookman/" id="anonymous_element_10" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;" title="">BigfootBookman</a></span> on <abbr class="published" style="border: 0px;" title="2012-06-03T22:53:46+00:00">03 June 2012 - 02:53 PM</abbr></div>
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These discussions of the PGF site just above seem absolutely relevant to the work of Bill Munns, as it will help to determine many things about the film itself, its subject and trackway, and the camera lens size used to film it. Bill is going to be working on this issue this summer, so it is a vital part of the Work-in-Progress known as the Munns Report.<br /><br />I'll just respond to the fellow who said above that "no one really knows where the site is" that, well, we DO know, with an incredibly high level of conviction and with evidence, where the site is. See our many YouTube videos to see how we tracked down the site, what issues and evidence and history we considered, and how we confirmed the site location in the end. See my blog in general,<a class="bbc_url" href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/</a>, and perhaps this post in particular...<br /><a class="bbc_url" href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/pgf-bigfoot-film-site-mathematically.html" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">http://bigfootbooksb...ematically.html</a><br /><br />Here is a search link for BLUFF CREEK FILM SITE PROJECT on YouTube, Season Two:<br /><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bluff+creek+film+site+project+season+two&oq=bluff+creek+film+site+project+season+two&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=youtube.3...10219.10219.0.11194.1.1.0.0.0.0.334.334.3-1.1.0...0.0.rcn36iqRe8s" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">http://www.youtube.c...0.0.rcn36iqRe8s</a><br /><br />Best,<br />BFBM<br /><div class="rep_bar clearfix right" id="rep_post_596519" style="float: right; margin: 6px 4px; padding: 0px; white-space: nowrap;">
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<span class="post_id right ipsType_small desc blend_links" style="color: #777777; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 4px;"><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/?view=findpost&p=595674" rel="bookmark" style="color: #777777; text-decoration: none;" title="The Munns Report: post #595674">#595674</a></span><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;">The Munns Report</a></h3>
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<img class="ipsUserPhoto ipsUserPhoto_tiny" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/av-37.jpg?_r=0" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; border: 1px solid rgb(213, 213, 213); box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; height: 20px; padding: 1px; vertical-align: middle; width: 20px;" /> Posted by <span class="author vcard"><a class="url fn name ___hover___member _hoversetup" data-ipb="noparse" hovercard-id="37" hovercard-ref="member" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/user/37-bigfootbookman/" id="anonymous_element_11" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;" title="">BigfootBookman</a></span> on <abbr class="published" style="border: 0px;" title="2012-06-01T00:44:16+00:00">31 May 2012 - 04:44 PM</abbr></div>
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From our survey map we got this, across the creek from the first sighting spot, roughly equivalent to where we think the first frames subject was walking...<br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-37325000-1338511246.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-5747-0-45320700-1395442689" rel="lightbox[595674]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="PGF GPS Map.jpg - Size: 68.38KB"><img alt="PGF GPS Map.jpg" class="attach" height="189" id="ipb-attach-img-5747-0-45320700-1395442689" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-37325000-1338511246_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><br /><br />Here is the incorrect BFRO GoogleEarth location (blue pin) and ours (at first white letter)...<br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-75562000-1338511331.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-5748-0-45342800-1395442689" rel="lightbox[595674]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="BFRO Film Site Location.jpg - Size: 575.98KB"><img alt="BFRO Film Site Location.jpg" class="attach" height="260" id="ipb-attach-img-5748-0-45342800-1395442689" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-75562000-1338511331_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><br /><br />The trackway would look *roughly* like this (Bill will be able to tell better on-site, and this is just a sketch)...<br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-92743700-1338511400.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-5749-0-45357200-1395442689" rel="lightbox[595674]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="ESTIMATED TRACKWAY 2.jpg - Size: 542.14KB"><img alt="ESTIMATED TRACKWAY 2.jpg" class="attach" height="310" id="ipb-attach-img-5749-0-45357200-1395442689" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-92743700-1338511400_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><br /><em class="bbc">Click images to enlarge.</em><br />GPS unit readings do tend to vary, so I am told, keep in mind.<br /><br />Any professional survey advice before we get back up there would of course be appreciated.<br /><br />BFBM<br /><br /><div class="citation" style="background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(246, 246, 246)), to(rgb(229, 229, 229))); border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-style: solid; border-right-width: 2px; border-top-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-top-left-radius: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 2px; font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; overflow-x: auto; padding: 8px 10px;">
'xspider1', on 31 May 2012 - 2:25 PM, said:<a class="snapback right" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=595604" rel="citation" style="color: #225985; float: right; margin-right: 5px; padding: 1px 0px 1px 1px; text-decoration: none;"><img src="http://bigfootforums.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" /></a></div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote built" data-author="'xspider1'" data-cid="595604" data-time="1338499506" style="background-color: #f7f7f7; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-bottom-left-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; border-bottom-width: 2px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-width: 2px; border-style: none solid solid; border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; font-size: 12px; margin: 0px; overflow-x: auto; padding: 10px;">
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According to this from Steve's blog:<br /><br /><a class="bbc_url" href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/search?q=gps" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">http://bigfootbooksb...om/search?q=gps</a><br /><br />the coordinates are about:<br />N 41° 26.399 W 123° 42.105<br />(unless that has been revised).<br /><br />I looked on Google Earth and on Google maps but I didn't spot Patty yet : /<br />haha</div>
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Gimlin first re-identified the first sighting spot in 2003, but was not too sure of it then. The creekbed has changed somewhat, and the sandbar is covered in new trees. It seems incredible, but no one could identify the actual spot where the film subject walked, the big trees and other features, until we came along and tried to prove the true film site. We had to rule out many areas, but Gimlin's memory turned out to be totally accurate. Based upon many other factors, we were able to rule out the other proposed locations, and chose to survey the extant sandbar up the bank from Gimlin's spot. The Finding Bigfoot show did not even attempt to film on the actual sandbar, and only showed Gimlin at the sighting spot on the opposite side of the creek. Bobo's re-enactment was filmed in the creekbed, not up on the higher sandbar above, due to the need for a clear area and proper lighting for filming.<br /><br />See the survey map I posted a few posts up for the current state of things. Also, we have over sixty videos on YouTube showing the whole area. Watch the last 10 or so if you want to see the actual spot as it is today.<br /><br />Links to all of this, the information and videos, may be found here: <a class="bbc_url" href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/</a><br />A lot of the information is in this one: <a class="bbc_url" href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/patterson-gimlin-film-site-rediscovered.html" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">http://bigfootbooksb...discovered.html</a><br /><br />BFBM<br /><br /><div class="citation" style="background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(246, 246, 246)), to(rgb(229, 229, 229))); border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-style: solid; border-right-width: 2px; border-top-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-top-left-radius: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 2px; font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; overflow-x: auto; padding: 8px 10px;">
'BFSleuth', on 29 May 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:<a class="snapback right" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=594823" rel="citation" style="color: #225985; float: right; margin-right: 5px; padding: 1px 0px 1px 1px; text-decoration: none;"><img src="http://bigfootforums.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" /></a></div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote built" data-author="'BFSleuth'" data-cid="594823" data-time="1338311556" style="background-color: #f7f7f7; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-bottom-left-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; border-bottom-width: 2px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-width: 2px; border-style: none solid solid; border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; font-size: 12px; margin: 0px; overflow-x: auto; padding: 10px;">
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Drew, if you go to BFROVIDEOS channel on Youtube they have several videos at the site. These aren't shot with Bob Gimlin as they aren't shot with Finding Bigfoot and I believe the one time they tried the snow was too much. TV producers need to learn that little things like weather and snow conditions play a role in production schedules. Yes, the site has changed quite a bit since 1967. The floods from the winter of 66/67 created the wide open area we see in the PGF. The flood scoured out a wide channel and many trees were sucked into the waters, creating log jams here and there on the river. Since that time trees have grown up again and I'm sure there has been a more minor flood or two. The basics of the area look familiar in the BFRO videos for anyone that has studied the PGF. And the sand and soil is medium gray. No snow white sand anywhere to be found.</div>
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<span class="post_id right ipsType_small desc blend_links" style="color: #777777; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 4px;"><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/?view=findpost&p=582731" rel="bookmark" style="color: #777777; text-decoration: none;" title="The Munns Report: post #582731">#582731</a></span><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;">The Munns Report</a></h3>
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<img class="ipsUserPhoto ipsUserPhoto_tiny" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/av-37.jpg?_r=0" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; border: 1px solid rgb(213, 213, 213); box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; height: 20px; padding: 1px; vertical-align: middle; width: 20px;" /> Posted by <span class="author vcard"><a class="url fn name ___hover___member _hoversetup" data-ipb="noparse" hovercard-id="37" hovercard-ref="member" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/user/37-bigfootbookman/" id="anonymous_element_13" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;" title="">BigfootBookman</a></span> on <abbr class="published" style="border: 0px;" title="2012-04-20T21:42:54+00:00">20 April 2012 - 01:42 PM</abbr></div>
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Here is some info. on the Kodak cameras...<br /><div class="bbc_left" style="padding: 0px;">
"Kodak 16mm: <span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Kodak 100’ Models include the following cameras, divided by film requirements: Models: A, B, BB*, E and G, made from 1923 through about 1954 use 2R only. Few are still in serious use.</span></span></span></div>
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<span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Models: Cine Kodak Special (1933-1948), Cine Kodak Special II (1948-1961), Cine Kodak K-100 and Reflex Special all use 1R"</span></span></span></div>
<a class="bbc_url" href="http://motion.kodak.com/motion/products/production/spotlight_on_16/16mm_camera_information/caminfo.htm" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">http://motion.kodak....ion/caminfo.htm</a><br /><br />and...<br />"<span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12px;">The final 16mm spool loading Cine-Kodak the K100 arrived in 1956 with both turret and non-turret versions."</span></span></span><br /><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12px;">from </span></span></span><a class="bbc_url" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cine-Kodak" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Cine-Kodak</a><br /><br />You can see me with my K-100 here...<br /><a class="bbc_url" href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/debris-from-bluff-creek-odds-and-ends.html" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">http://bigfootbooksb...s-and-ends.html</a><br /><br />Here's a couple of samples:<br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-04029500-1334957987.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-5424-0-18806700-1395442690" rel="lightbox[582731]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="K-100.jpg - Size: 75KB"><img alt="K-100.jpg" class="attach" height="300" id="ipb-attach-img-5424-0-18806700-1395442690" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-04029500-1334957987_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-98475200-1334958018.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-5425-0-18828300-1395442690" rel="lightbox[582731]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="k100 and me.jpg - Size: 16.29KB"><img alt="k100 and me.jpg" class="attach" height="320" id="ipb-attach-img-5425-0-18828300-1395442690" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-98475200-1334958018.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="240" /></a><br /><br />It has 25 and 50 mm lenses in the turret.<br /><br />BFBM<br /><div class="rep_bar clearfix right" id="rep_post_582731" style="float: right; margin: 6px 4px; padding: 0px; white-space: nowrap;">
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<span class="post_id right ipsType_small desc blend_links" style="color: #777777; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 4px;"><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/?view=findpost&p=138410" rel="bookmark" style="color: #777777; text-decoration: none;" title="The Munns Report: post #138410">#138410</a></span><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;">The Munns Report</a></h3>
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<img class="ipsUserPhoto ipsUserPhoto_tiny" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/av-37.jpg?_r=0" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; border: 1px solid rgb(213, 213, 213); box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; height: 20px; padding: 1px; vertical-align: middle; width: 20px;" /> Posted by <span class="author vcard"><a class="url fn name ___hover___member _hoversetup" data-ipb="noparse" hovercard-id="37" hovercard-ref="member" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/user/37-bigfootbookman/" id="anonymous_element_14" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;" title="">BigfootBookman</a></span> on <abbr class="published" style="border: 0px;" title="2012-01-31T01:07:14+00:00">30 January 2012 - 05:07 PM</abbr></div>
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<span style="font-size: x-small;">Our mathematical analysis comparing the site survey map to the 1971 aerial photograph by Dahinden not only proves the site location conclusively, but should also aid in locating the exact trackway and camera postition.<br />We will hopefully have a professional surveyor up there next summer to refine measurements, and it would of course be grand to have the famous Munns optical/film expertise on site.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-size: 14px;">Check out the latest analysis and information, and view our latest videos here:</span><br /><a class="bbc_url" href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/pgf-bigfoot-film-site-mathematically.html" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da; font-size: 14px;" title="External link">http://bigfootbooksb...ematically.html</a><br /><br /><span style="font-size: 14px;">The analysis was done by a practicing geologist, using trigonometry and geometry that goes way over my English major head.</span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-023626700%201327971997.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-4869-0-54871200-1395442690" rel="lightbox[138410]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-size: 14px; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="PGF PROOF 3.jpg - Size: 230.25KB"><img alt="PGF PROOF 3.jpg" class="attach" height="219" id="ipb-attach-img-4869-0-54871200-1395442690" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-023626700%201327971997_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span><br /><em class="bbc" style="font-size: 14px;">(Click image to enlarge.)</em><br /><br /><span style="font-size: 10px;">Best,</span><br /><span style="font-size: 14px;">BFBM</span><br /><br /><span style="font-size: 14px;">(Steve, Bigfoot Books, Willow Creek)</span><br /><a class="bbc_url" href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da; font-size: 14px;" title="External link">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/</a><br /><br /><div class="citation" style="background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(246, 246, 246)), to(rgb(229, 229, 229))); border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-style: solid; border-right-width: 2px; border-top-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-top-left-radius: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 2px; font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; overflow-x: auto; padding: 8px 10px;">
'Bill', on 30 Jan 2012 - 4:10 PM, said:<a class="snapback right" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=138374" rel="citation" style="color: #225985; float: right; margin-right: 5px; padding: 1px 0px 1px 1px; text-decoration: none;"><img src="http://bigfootforums.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" /></a></div>
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zigoapex:<br />In the matter of the distance "Patty" walked and calculating stride, I believe we are close to finally settling that once and for all. I do need a personal site visit to wrap that up, and the prospect of that happening this year is promising at present. Walk speed however is also dependent on the camera filming speed, and we haven't yet found a way to certify the film camera's speed. So there is that obstacle to overcome.<br />But one thing I have found is that sometimes a new piece of evidence will unlock a previously stalled line of investigation, and make something possible which was not possible before. So I'll have to wait and see how much new evidence is obtained from the site visit. The camera speed may yet be solved. I will keep an open mind to the problem and possible solutions.<br />Bill</div>
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<span class="post_id right ipsType_small desc blend_links" style="color: #777777; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 4px;"><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/?view=findpost&p=124320" rel="bookmark" style="color: #777777; text-decoration: none;" title="The Munns Report: post #124320">#124320</a></span><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;">The Munns Report</a></h3>
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<img class="ipsUserPhoto ipsUserPhoto_tiny" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/av-37.jpg?_r=0" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; border: 1px solid rgb(213, 213, 213); box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; height: 20px; padding: 1px; vertical-align: middle; width: 20px;" /> Posted by <span class="author vcard"><a class="url fn name ___hover___member _hoversetup" data-ipb="noparse" hovercard-id="37" hovercard-ref="member" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/user/37-bigfootbookman/" id="anonymous_element_15" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;" title="">BigfootBookman</a></span> on <abbr class="published" style="border: 0px;" title="2011-12-07T04:08:10+00:00">06 December 2011 - 08:08 PM</abbr></div>
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<span style="color: #222222; font-size: 14px;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10px;">I already commented on the flora issue a while back.</span></span></span><br /><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"></span></span><span style="font-size: x-small;"><br /><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"></span></span><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">With the current image on here I can see more detail. I agree it looks like holly, but it probably isn't. The red looks like a dead part of a leaf, not berries, under enlargement. The glossy leaves are interesting. There are live oaks growing sporadically up there. There are also azaleas and rhododendrons all over those hillsides. It also seems too early for holly berries in mid-late October. I have no recollection of seeing holly growing up there, over many years and wide travels up and down the creek.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #222222;"><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"></span><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"></span></span><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">The "rose" is not a rose; by any other name, it is a young madrone or a rhododendron, with dying leaves in spots. This is common for pre-winter times of the year, where these plants can lose "superfluous" leaves or branches, prioritizing for the ones that are most viable under low-moisture summer conditions. Wild roses around here are fairly rare, and are pinkish and whitish in color. I am no botanist, but have gotten pretty darn familiar with the flora around here and in Bluff. I don't recall holly up there. I am asking Robert Leiterman, a member of our Film Site Project who is a parks ranger, to comment. I have learned much of my Bluff Creek botany from him. It's part of his job.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #222222;"><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"></span><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"></span></span><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">The black lines on the tree are clearly the shadows of vine maples, which infest the area. It is my decided opinion that the photo was taken at Bluff Creek.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #222222;"><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"></span><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"></span></span><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">The "bucket," under this higher resolution, looks clearly like a wood chunk. Same with the other piece on the ground. And I'd say they look perfectly ordinary for the remains of a logging project. They cut out wedges when falling trees. There was salvage logging on the site in 1965-66, which included taking out some of the trees on the sandbar to clear it against potential future flooding and log jams. These stumps are still there on the site, as are old sawed off log pieces.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #222222;"><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"></span><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"></span></span><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">Louse Camp is right on Bluff Creek, but that is not Louse, as P and G were not seen there by the road construction crews based there for the building of the Blue Creek Mountain ridge road extension that summer and fall.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #222222;"><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"></span><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"></span></span><span style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">BFBM</span></span> </span><br /><div class="rep_bar clearfix right" id="rep_post_124320" style="float: right; font-size: 14px; margin: 6px 4px; padding: 0px; white-space: nowrap;">
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<span class="post_id right ipsType_small desc blend_links" style="color: #777777; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 4px;"><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/?view=findpost&p=115035" rel="bookmark" style="color: #777777; text-decoration: none;" title="The Munns Report: post #115035">#115035</a></span><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;">The Munns Report</a></h3>
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<img class="ipsUserPhoto ipsUserPhoto_tiny" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/av-37.jpg?_r=0" style="-webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; border: 1px solid rgb(213, 213, 213); box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0980392) 0px 2px 2px; height: 20px; padding: 1px; vertical-align: middle; width: 20px;" /> Posted by <span class="author vcard"><a class="url fn name ___hover___member _hoversetup" data-ipb="noparse" hovercard-id="37" hovercard-ref="member" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/user/37-bigfootbookman/" id="anonymous_element_16" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;" title="">BigfootBookman</a></span> on <abbr class="published" style="border: 0px;" title="2011-11-01T00:33:45+00:00">31 October 2011 - 04:33 PM</abbr></div>
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We only suggested it as a possibility, Parnassus. I have not gone off the handle. Gimlin would not have been able to refer to a bridge that was not there the one time he was there before Wasson's book. However, she went up that very part of the creek with Rene, as that was the way in there in 1977. Our speculations on this matter remain reasonable. BUT yes, it is often very difficult to find solidly verifiable sources on these Bluff Creek matters. Sometimes one has to theorize. Nothing is wrong with that.<br /><br />I would suggest to you, Parnassus, that you should take YOUR stuff to some other thread. Frankly, why not JREF?<br /><br />"Personal stuff and ad homs"... I have no idea what you are even talking about.<br />In fact, I will not waste my "time and cred" even listening to you anymore.<br /><br />BFBM<br /><div class="rep_bar clearfix right" id="rep_post_115035" style="float: right; margin: 6px 4px; padding: 0px; white-space: nowrap;">
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<span class="post_id right ipsType_small desc blend_links" style="color: #777777; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 4px;"><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/?view=findpost&p=114764" rel="bookmark" style="color: #777777; text-decoration: none;" title="The Munns Report: post #114764">#114764</a></span><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;">The Munns Report</a></h3>
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Just back from Bluff Creek. We measured all the big main tree distances. We got more GPS readings. Leiterman is camped there on the sandbar as I speak. Hopefully he won't get eaten by a cougar.<br /><br />Seeing those trees today has left me with no doubt in my mind. Still, we have to prove it; and Bill is the man to do it.<br /><br />More tomorrow. I promise photos.<br /><br />BFBM<br /><div class="rep_bar clearfix right" id="rep_post_114764" style="float: right; margin: 6px 4px; padding: 0px; white-space: nowrap;">
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<span class="post_id right ipsType_small desc blend_links" style="color: #777777; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 4px;"><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/?view=findpost&p=114383" rel="bookmark" style="color: #777777; text-decoration: none;" title="The Munns Report: post #114383">#114383</a></span><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;">The Munns Report</a></h3>
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'Bill', on 29 Oct 2011 - 7:04 PM, said:<a class="snapback right" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=114380" rel="citation" style="color: #225985; float: right; margin-right: 5px; padding: 1px 0px 1px 1px; text-decoration: none;"><img src="http://bigfootforums.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" /></a></div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote built" data-author="'Bill'" data-cid="114380" data-time="1319940251" style="background-color: #f7f7f7; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-bottom-left-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; border-bottom-width: 2px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-width: 2px; border-style: none solid solid; border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; font-size: 12px; margin: 0px; overflow-x: auto; padding: 10px;">
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Steve:<br /><br />I look forward to seeing it. Any sign of the cluster of 4-5 trees up the slope and between the Big tree and the Ladder tree? I figured that for one of the more reliable things still standing, as trees or as stumps.<br /><br />If you can email me a high resolution map of your site documentation, I'd appreciate it. send to wmunns@gte.net<br /><br />Photos would be wonderful too.<br /><br />I'd like to compare it to my site model diagram.<br /><br />Bill</div>
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<br />Bill, the only logging done there was 1965 to 1966, salvage logging post-flood, pre-PGF. The old firs still stand, and there are indeed clusters of big firs behind there and along the subsequent background area. It is not easy to get a proper photograph due to new growth obscuring and also destroying the possibility of gaining perspective. I may be able to get up there tomorrow to check. It would be very helpful to have the images of the trees you've done showing them with clarity. I'd be happy to send all the data to you in a cooperative spirit. What would help us greatly is at least a clip section of your frame by frame scans of the film to sort out camera perspectives during the film as the view shifts among the old stumps and in relation to the big trees. In our grid I can see where I think cameraman and subject walked, but it is difficult to establish perspective orientation of our map to the actual film as seen mainly in Frame 352 and the documentation of it done by Dahinden, Green, and Byrne. Using the aerial photo requires a radical shifting of viewpoint. We hope your expertise will enable us to establish facts, distinguished from perceptual suppositions and perspective illusions. At this point we are finding the Murphy site model insufficient, and perhaps inaccurate.<br /><br />Parnassus, you mean Louse CAMP, right? Well, the road there went right along the creek just up a bit on the hillside as it does today. Then it descended slightly to creek level where it headed left upstream or right up to the ridge. McClarin and Henry drove this route in 1967, as did many locals over the years. The old Bluff Creek Road heads up the creek from around Fish Lake to and past Louse Camp, all the way past the film site three miles past the bridge. What is your issue, aside from a large need for the thrill of schadenfreude?<br /><br />BFBM<br /><div class="rep_bar clearfix right" id="rep_post_114383" style="float: right; margin: 6px 4px; padding: 0px; white-space: nowrap;">
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<span class="post_id right ipsType_small desc blend_links" style="color: #777777; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 4px;"><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/?view=findpost&p=114368" rel="bookmark" style="color: #777777; text-decoration: none;" title="The Munns Report: post #114368">#114368</a></span><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;">The Munns Report</a></h3>
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'parnassus', on 29 Oct 2011 - 3:17 PM, said:<a class="snapback right" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=114274" rel="citation" style="color: #225985; float: right; margin-right: 5px; padding: 1px 0px 1px 1px; text-decoration: none;"><img src="http://bigfootforums.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" /></a></div>
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Stop trying to use Dahinden for this. Wasson doesn't say that her source is Dahinden, does she? In fact, it appears that her source for that section of the book is Gimlin. Wouldn't u agree? Its just another version of Gimlin's same story. So trying to drag Dahinden into this is not warranted; it's wishful thinking and it's deceptive. tsk tsk.<br /><br />And that pretty well blows up your suggestion of Dahinden rebar marking the campsite. Not to mention the fact that nobody else seems to have been able to drive north along the creek bottom from the vicinity of Louse Creek.</div>
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<br />When Gimlin was there there was in fact no bridge over Bluff Creek at that spot, so it could not have been he who told that to Wasson. However, she went to the site with Dahinden in 1977 while she was researching her book. It could only have been he, and in fact she is said to have been "involved" with Rene at the time. Another arrogant fail, Mr Parnassus.<br /><br />Bill, we have almost certainly gained proof of the location of the true PGF site. We have found the big tree, with a maple beside it, a fir beside that, followed by a spiky younger fir snag, and a dead ringer for the ladder tree, with other firs following that match well. We have gridded out the entire sandbar, and have a map showing all major old stumps and wood debris piles. All seem to match very well. We'd like to have your professional opinion of the site map we have produced. I'll post a lower resolution version here soon. We have all measurement data for you, on a north to south axis from Gimlin's first sighting spot. The north line runs directly to the big trees spot. Features are plotted within ten yard squares on the grid. This should be enough to prove it out once camera perspective is established.<br /><br />BFBM<br /><div class="rep_bar clearfix right" id="rep_post_114368" style="float: right; margin: 6px 4px; padding: 0px; white-space: nowrap;">
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<span class="post_id right ipsType_small desc blend_links" style="color: #777777; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-left: 4px;"><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/?view=findpost&p=111033" rel="bookmark" style="color: #777777; text-decoration: none;" title="The Munns Report: post #111033">#111033</a></span><a href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/2428-the-munns-report/" style="color: #225985; text-decoration: none;">The Munns Report</a></h3>
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<span style="font-family: arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">My post has a lot to do with this thread, namely identifying the spots depicted in Roll One of the Patterson footage, which Bill Munns has rediscovered and scanned and presented here.<br />There was doubt expressed as to whether the packhorse footage was shot in the Bluff Creek bottom. Well, I can with near 100% certainty say that it indeed is. If that isn't Bluff Creek to you, then I simply don't know what I can say. Much of it is extremely familiar to me, and also essentially identical to the scenery seen in the Bigfoot parts. Hence, Bill's work serves once again to confirm the veracity of much in the PGF accounts given by Patterson and Gimlin. </span></span><br /><br /><span style="font-size: 14px;">If you want to police this thread, perhaps you should ask Mr. Munns first if it needs it, eh?</span><br /><span style="font-size: 14px;">I am talking about film that Munns has been studying, so I really don't know how to make Parnassus happy. Perhaps nothing will, short of an ape suit.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-size: 14px;">BFBM</span><br /><br /><span style="font-size: 14px;">Here is Bluff Creek, from October 12th. This is the vine maple foliage still yellow, with nary a reddish tinge found on the PGF site.</span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-047720900%201319156996.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-3998-0-66901700-1395442692" rel="lightbox[111033]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-size: 14px; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Film Site October 12 Vine Maples.jpg - Size: 115.41KB"><img alt="Film Site October 12 Vine Maples.jpg" class="attach" height="300" id="ipb-attach-img-3998-0-66901700-1395442692" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-047720900%201319156996_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span><br /><br /><span style="font-size: 14px;">Here are some old sawn stumps and rotting logs found on the upper sandbar, near the big trees, PGF site, Oct. 12th this year. We believe these are those seen in the film.</span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-097685100%201319157035.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-3999-0-66924600-1395442692" rel="lightbox[111033]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-size: 14px; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Stumps on Film Site October 12.jpg - Size: 91.22KB"><img alt="Stumps on Film Site October 12.jpg" class="attach" height="400" id="ipb-attach-img-3999-0-66924600-1395442692" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-097685100%201319157035_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="300" /></a><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span><br /><br /><span style="font-size: 14px;">Here is one of the best prospects for the "Big Tree," found near those stumps.</span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-067220500%201319157384.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-4000-0-66938500-1395442692" rel="lightbox[111033]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-size: 14px; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Big Tree prospect Oct. 12.jpg - Size: 91.73KB"><img alt="Big Tree prospect Oct. 12.jpg" class="attach" height="400" id="ipb-attach-img-4000-0-66938500-1395442692" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-067220500%201319157384_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="300" /></a><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-14158206737954994102014-03-16T17:38:00.000-07:002014-03-16T17:38:07.947-07:00The Problem of the Ray Wallace Hoax Tracks in Bluff Creek, and Their Contrast with the Jerry Crew and Other Tracks Found from 1958-1967<div class="posted_info desc lighter ipsType_small" style="background-color: white; color: #a4a4a4; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 15.600000381469727px; padding: 0px 0px 10px;">
Originally Posted <abbr class="published" itemprop="commentTime" style="border: 0px;" title="2010-10-19T07:31:03+00:00">18 October 2010 - 11:31 PM</abbr></div>
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<span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">I have to admit feeling rather disturbed by the Wallace feet when they were presented by his family to the public after Ray's death. They did look abominably familiar. Not long after that I, too, was looking back at my John Green books. Though the Wallace feet do not match many of the Bluff Creek historical footprints, they do match very closely the ones found in 1967, before the Patterson-Gimlin film was shot. They do not match with the P-G sandbar track casts, nor the original Jerry Crew one, nor Patterson's Laird Meadow print from 1964. The similarity with the Al Hodgson cast is, I think, debatable. </span></span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-094574300%201287472489.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-505-0-14394000-1395014470" rel="lightbox[13653]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="blue creek mountain 2.jpg - Size 13.43KB"><img alt="blue creek mountain 2.jpg" class="attach" height="176" id="ipb-attach-img-505-0-14394000-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-094574300%201287472489_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="168" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">The feature that stands out most is the so-called "double ball" on the side of the foot, with the "hourglass" general curvature. Also, the boxiness of the toes is a Wallace-foot feature. Looking at the photos from Onion Mountain and Blue Creek Mountain I have to admit that there is similarity. The OM trackway looks fairly artificial in photos, and the close-up taken by Rene Dahinden, especially, looks identical to a Wallace foot stomper. What can we say? The tale goes that the tracks led down from the hill and over the other side down an embankment. These tracks showed great variance and adaptability to the irregular terrain, not to mention covering ground where it would be exceedingly difficult to utilize Wallace's stated means of hoaxing. That method was supposedly to put the wooden feet onto one's boots and be pulled behind a truck on a rope while walking, achieving greater stride and depth of impact upon the ground. At least, that is the way the account goes. We weren't there, unfortunately, to witness these aspects. To my eye, the tracks in the photo that Kitakaze provides, above, DO look fake. They are too flat and too regular in placement; but that is just my eye, and it is such using an incompletely documented history and sets of photos. I'm sure there are many, many unpublished photographic examples still in the files of the Dahinden brothers and Mr. Green--if only we could see them all!</span></span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-032347100%201287472675.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-507-0-14424700-1395014470" rel="lightbox[13653]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Bigfoot Wylie.jpg - Size 13.12KB"><img alt="Bigfoot Wylie.jpg" class="attach" height="238" id="ipb-attach-img-507-0-14424700-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-032347100%201287472675_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="157" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">You surely have heard the "believer" defense on this matter: Wallace copied his footprint stompers from tracks they found earlier, i.e., from the REAL tracks. To me this is plausible, to some degree. </span></span><br /><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-068293700%201287472509.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-506-0-14408900-1395014470" rel="lightbox[13653]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Blue Creek Mtn. Track.jpg - Size 180.67KB"><img alt="Blue Creek Mtn. Track.jpg" class="attach" height="400" id="ipb-attach-img-506-0-14408900-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-068293700%201287472509_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="280" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">Also, one has to ask was Wallace even THERE in 1967? He was employed on the earlier Bluff Creek Road project, but was he employed on the later Blue Creek Mountain ridgeline add-on??? Kitakaze, above, presents 1967 footprints in an attempt, I assume, to discredit tracks and events that occurred in 1958. I'm personally not sure that this makes sense. If the Wallaces weren't there, then what does it have to do with it? Did he pass on his footprint stompers to someone else? It's a bit of a mystery.</span></span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-099384800%201287472764.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-508-0-14439400-1395014470" rel="lightbox[13653]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="1964PattersonLairdMdRd.jpg - Size 26.94KB"><img alt="1964PattersonLairdMdRd.jpg" class="attach" height="350" id="ipb-attach-img-508-0-14439400-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-099384800%201287472764_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="174" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><em class="bbc" style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"><span style="font-size: 8px;">Patterson's 1964 Laird Meadow Cast</span></em><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">Look at the photo of the tracks in the road dirt below the Hodgson cast... there are TWO different footprint shapes there. Also, look at the photo of Wallace (actually, that looks like Rant Mullens to me) with the row of fake footprints--NONE of these match, and ALL of them look ridiculous. In the case of the BCM prints there were supposedly THREE different trackways found, all differing in shape and size.</span></span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-012047400%201287473013.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-509-0-14457800-1395014470" rel="lightbox[13653]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Al Footprint Casts.jpg - Size 29.71KB"><img alt="Al Footprint Casts.jpg" class="attach" height="270" id="ipb-attach-img-509-0-14457800-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-012047400%201287473013_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="360" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><em class="bbc" style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"><span style="font-size: 8px;">Al Hodgson's footprint casts, as seen in A&E documentary.</span></em><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">It is so difficult to say anything concrete and verifiable in these matters. It is undeniable that Wallace and his brother(s) were around on and off in the late 1950s, up to some time in the early 60s. The article presented in Roger Patterson's book (</span></span><span class="searchlite" style="background-color: yellow; color: red; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">Humboldt</span><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><span class="searchlite" style="background-color: yellow; color: red; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">Times</span><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">, October 14, 1958, by Andrew </span></span><span class="searchlite" style="background-color: yellow; color: red; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">Genzoli</span><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">) mentions Bigfoot-type events occurring two years or so BEFORE 1958. So, from this, we apparently know that the Wallaces were working in Bluff Creek in 1956. The fact that there was a Wallace presence through these years does cast some suspicion on the early Bluff Creek reports. But who knows? He may have picked up on reports and sightings that already existed in this area LONG before Mr. Ray arrived. These, also, have persisted after he left the area and after he left this earthly realm. Was Ray Wallace imitative, or originative? I think it was the first case, but that he started to play into the expectations of the media and the researchers of the topic. It is undeniable that there WERE hoax events going on back then; but one is hard-pressed to ascertain WHEN, and WHICH were Wallace or Wallace-influenced or -encouraged hoaxings.</span></span><br /><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">I know from conversations with the fellow (Delaney, his last name, but he doesn't want his full name out there) whose father owned the Orleans Inn that there were good-old-boys and loggers and construction workers joking around about hoaxing Bigfoot. They used to sit on his porch at the Inn, when my contact was just a kid, and talk about doing it. Also, another old logger named Joe Ramos, who worked mostly up in the Blue Creek and farther north watersheds, up from Bluff Creek, that most of the local workers considered it to be a hoax. That is, according to him, and those he knew. Ramos used to own the store in Klamath, down on the coast, and would drive back and forth over Bald Hills Road regularly in the course of his business. He died recently at the age of 92. </span></span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-001252900%201287473320.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-511-0-14487000-1395014470" rel="lightbox[13653]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Green on BCM with Tracks.jpg - Size 37.68KB"><img alt="Green on BCM with Tracks.jpg" class="attach" height="396" id="ipb-attach-img-511-0-14487000-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-001252900%201287473320_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="276" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">Then again, there are other old-timers, including my neighbor, Jay Rowland, along with Al Hodgson, who INSIST that Wallace did not do those footprints. As a person trying to find out the truth on these matters, or rather, seeking to tell the truth from the baloney, it can get extremely frustrating. One hears so many differing historical points, often contradictory ones, that a lead often spins in on itself into a dead end culdesac. </span></span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-044869700%201287473344.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-512-0-14504300-1395014470" rel="lightbox[13653]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Footprint Casts.jpg - Size 28.04KB"><img alt="Footprint Casts.jpg" class="attach" height="300" id="ipb-attach-img-512-0-14504300-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-044869700%201287473344_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><em class="bbc" style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"><span style="font-size: 8px;">Track casts at 2007 Willow Creek PGF Anniversary event. Photo taken by Steven Streufert.</span></em><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">We know from Patterson's book that Wallace moved to Toledo, WA "a few years back" before 1966. Assuming this was written in that year, then perhaps Wallace moved in 1963? We need to find out the dates of his time not only living down here in the Willow-Bluff Creek area, but also the dates of his presence on the work projects. With Shorty-Wilbur Wallace involved, though, who knows? And if their joke hoaxes spread to other workers who also wanted to try their hands...? Well, we're really hard pressed to say what is real and what is simulacra and farce. Look right at the cover of John Green's ON THE TRACK OF SASQUATCH and there it is, a life-sized image of the Wallace footprint stomper (or page 70 of the current "BEST OF..." edition). The classic Rene Dahinden (page. 45, BEST OF SASQUATCH-BIGFOOT) also looks suspiciously Wallacian. However, right next to it on page 44 one can see the Hyampom track from 1963, which looks much different, and to my eye at least, more authentic.</span></span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-006867200%201287473211.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-510-0-14472000-1395014470" rel="lightbox[13653]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Green with Casts.jpg - Size 16.3KB"><img alt="Green with Casts.jpg" class="attach" height="206" id="ipb-attach-img-510-0-14472000-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-006867200%201287473211_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="284" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><em class="bbc" style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"><span style="font-size: 8px;">Green's casts show great variation.</span></em><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">It's hard to explain all of this. In fact, some of it can't be explained. All I as an individual can do is take some things with a grain of salt. I'll stand up for John Green's great work any day, even if he may have fallen for a hoax or two. I will not say that I believe these Onion Mountain and Blue Creek Mountain tracks to be a hoaxes, but I will admit that they COULD have been. The last thing I think one should do is try to bend evidence to match one's expectations. And, as far as that goes, there is simply an amazing amount of stuff to suggest that Bigfoot is real, even without these possible Wallace tracks; and yes, even without the PGF.</span></span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-023111500%201287472453.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-504-0-14377800-1395014470" rel="lightbox[13653]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Bluff Print.jpg - Size 18.81KB"><img alt="Bluff Print.jpg" class="attach" height="196" id="ipb-attach-img-504-0-14377800-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-023111500%201287472453_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="327" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">I would like to suggest, however, that the PGF tracks are QUITE DIFFERENT from the Wallace stompers, and VERY variable, as cast by Titmus and Patterson.</span></span><br /><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">All I can offer for now is to TRY to get more clarity from the memories of those who knew or worked with the Wallaces, or from those historian types who may have records of those days somewhere. It's a long shot. See, this is how human memory and reportage works: witnesses are unreliable, accounts vary, memories get blurred, the timelines get mixed up.... It makes the Patterson film timeline issues look simple in comparison.</span></span><br /><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">Best,</span></span><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">Steve</span></span><br /><br /><div class="citation" style="background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(246, 246, 246)), to(rgb(229, 229, 229))); border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-style: solid; border-right-width: 2px; border-top-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-top-left-radius: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 2px; color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 1.6; overflow-x: auto; padding: 8px 10px;">
'parnassus', on 18 Oct 2010 - 6:59 PM, said:<a class="snapback right" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=13581" rel="citation" style="color: #225985; float: right; margin-right: 5px; padding: 1px 0px 1px 1px; text-decoration: none;"><img src="http://bigfootforums.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" /></a></div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote built" data-author="'parnassus'" data-cid="13581" data-time="1287453597" style="background-color: #f7f7f7; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-bottom-left-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; border-bottom-width: 2px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-width: 2px; border-style: none solid solid; border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px; overflow-x: auto; padding: 10px;">
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Did I write that I know where everybody was back then? or is that just a straw man?<br /><br />If that is your way of asking for a source for what I wrote about the Wallace brothers in 1958, it's in a book written by Roger Patterson, back in 1966.</div>
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<span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">Parnassus,</span></span><br /><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">I agree that those overly-straight trackways look absolutely faked, to my eye anyway they look just like what I saw in one news clip or documentary where one of the Wallace family was re-enacting how they faked footprints along the road. This was by being pulled behind a truck by holding a rope, while wearing the wooden feet. To accomplish this one would naturally be inclined to keep one's feet in a straight line with the axis of the rope, so as not to lose balance. I've had certain Bigfooters tell me that this linear stride alignment is just how Bigfoot creatures walk; but to me that seems an explanation after the fact, trying to make up things to make t</span></span><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; line-height: 1.6;">he theory of what a Bigfoot is and does match </span><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">the ostensible evidence. Just how, I would ask, would a giant, broad creature such as the Sasquatch develop the habit (and evolutionary trait) of walking with steps in such a straight line? This would suggest a creature that actually turned its feet inward, a walking style that not only does not make any real anatomical sense, but would also incline the creature toward tipping over all the time. That big, adaptable foot, it would seem to me, would be more mobile, widely spaced, adapting to the terrain, certainly not tip-toeing around.</span></span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-065524500%201287609503.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-544-0-14611400-1395014470" rel="lightbox[14100]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Titmus2.jpg - Size 16.79KB"><img alt="Titmus2.jpg" class="attach" height="256" id="ipb-attach-img-544-0-14611400-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-065524500%201287609503_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="190" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-051868300%201287609592.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-545-0-14626300-1395014470" rel="lightbox[14100]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Titmus Hyampom 2.jpg - Size 14.61KB"><img alt="Titmus Hyampom 2.jpg" class="attach" height="354" id="ipb-attach-img-545-0-14626300-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-051868300%201287609592_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="360" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">I am looking forward to Meldrum completing his online footprint track scan database. He was here in Willow Creek and scanned all of the Bigfoot Collection's specimens in 3-D high density. There are many casts from around this general area that do NOT match the Wallace classic stomper as shown by his family after Ray's death. There are many that match more closely to Patterson's casts. And then there are the famous ones from Hyampom.</span></span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-013027100%201287609469.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-543-0-14599200-1395014470" rel="lightbox[14100]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Wallace Tracks Feet.jpg - Size 147.18KB"><img alt="Wallace Tracks Feet.jpg" class="attach" height="283" id="ipb-attach-img-543-0-14599200-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-013027100%201287609469_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">Look again at that photo of the line-up of the Wallace prints Kitakaze presents, above--NONE of those look realistic at all. They don't even look as realistic as the foot stomper. They show a consistent pattern of shoddy craftsmanship, a tendency quite in line with his other presentations of Bigfoot to the world--ridiculous letters (See them on the NABS site), bad recordings, tall tales and exaggerations. Those Wallace tracks wouldn't even fool the most credulous child at his road-side display.</span></span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-008890500%201287609287.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-542-0-14585500-1395014470" rel="lightbox[14100]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Wallace Comparisons.jpg - Size 71.82KB"><img alt="Wallace Comparisons.jpg" class="attach" height="317" id="ipb-attach-img-542-0-14585500-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-008890500%201287609287_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">I am of the persuasion that there was a lot of hoaxing then, just as we today have a lot of silly blobsquatches and fake game camera images. However, I am quite persuaded by all the other reports I hear, and the other track casts, and by the PGF itself, that there IS something real roaming around out there in the Klamath-Trinity-Siskiyou wilderness.</span></span><br /><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-022683800%201287609631.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-546-0-14639300-1395014470" rel="lightbox[14100]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Al Hodgson BF Days.jpg - Size 20.35KB"><img alt="Al Hodgson BF Days.jpg" class="attach" height="300" id="ipb-attach-img-546-0-14639300-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-022683800%201287609631_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="200" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-065056200%201287609702.jpg" id="ipb-attach-url-548-0-14655100-1395014470" rel="lightbox[14100]" style="color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="Jerry Crew Bookmark.jpg - Size 21.23KB"><img alt="Jerry Crew Bookmark.jpg" class="attach" height="241" id="ipb-attach-img-548-0-14655100-1395014470" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-065056200%201287609702_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="200" /></a><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;"> </span></span><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">Best,</span></span><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">Steve, Bigfoot Books, Willow Creek</span></span><br /><a class="bbc_url" href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;" title="External link">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/</a><br /><br /><div class="citation" style="background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(246, 246, 246)), to(rgb(229, 229, 229))); border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-style: solid; border-right-width: 2px; border-top-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-top-left-radius: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 2px; color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 1.6; overflow-x: auto; padding: 8px 10px;">
'parnassus', on 19 Oct 2010 - 1:48 PM, said:<a class="snapback right" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=13783" rel="citation" style="color: #225985; float: right; margin-right: 5px; padding: 1px 0px 1px 1px; text-decoration: none;"><img src="http://bigfootforums.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" /></a></div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote built" data-author="'parnassus'" data-cid="13783" data-time="1287521313" style="background-color: #f7f7f7; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-bottom-left-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; border-bottom-width: 2px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-width: 2px; border-style: none solid solid; border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px; overflow-x: auto; padding: 10px;">
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Great post, BFBM; Ray moved to Toledo WA in 1961. The Wallasoid tracks, according to a couple of sources, match <strong class="bbc">all</strong> of the tracks found at Bluff Creek between 1958 and October 1967 with the exception of: 1) the one cast by Jerry Crew 2) and those "found" by Roger Patterson, and<strong class="bbc"> possibly</strong> one or two of the three found after Labor Day, 1967. <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hall-ii/" rel="external" style="color: #0f72da;" title="External link">This link</a> has some good info. The Wallace brothers and Rant Mullens had been in the hoaxing culture since 1924, and there is no reason to believe that they didn't sell or distribute their creations, and/or inspire others. The Wallasoid trackway seen in the 1967 Green photos, at least, could hardly have been made by a bigfoot. The axis of the feet is straight ahead and the straddle appears to be nonexistent. Not to mention the monotonous adynamic nature of the prints.</div>
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<span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">The truck tracks are clearly seen. However, Green and others speak of the tracks coming down the hill and then eventually heading off the opposite bank in at least one of the trackway finds. So? One has to wonder. I'll have to go back to the Green books to clarify which track find this was in reference to. Anyone here recall?</span></span><br /><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">I will hold to the opinion that some tracks were hoaxed and others were not, at least until any evidence proves otherwise. I mean, there were reports of sightings, too, and vandalism of work sites, and not just from the Wallace crew.</span></span><br /><br /><br /><span style="color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.6;">s.</span></span><br /><br /><div class="citation" style="background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(246, 246, 246)), to(rgb(229, 229, 229))); border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-style: solid; border-right-width: 2px; border-top-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-top-left-radius: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 2px; color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 1.6; overflow-x: auto; padding: 8px 10px;">
'nycBig', on 20 Oct 2010 - 3:17 PM, said:<a class="snapback right" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=14112" rel="citation" style="color: #225985; float: right; margin-right: 5px; padding: 1px 0px 1px 1px; text-decoration: none;"><img src="http://bigfootforums.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" /></a></div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote built" data-author="'nycBig'" data-cid="14112" data-time="1287613032" style="background-color: #f7f7f7; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-bottom-left-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; border-bottom-width: 2px; border-left-color: rgb(152, 152, 152); border-left-width: 2px; border-right-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-right-width: 2px; border-style: none solid solid; border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px; overflow-x: auto; padding: 10px;">
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I am suprised that no one was skeptical that the wallace trackways seem to always follow the path of a large truck..</div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-34436852499191043032013-09-15T17:41:00.003-07:002013-09-15T17:45:01.017-07:00Melba Is Toast: A Biochemist with a Ph.D. from Harvard Analyzes the Ketchum Bigfoot DNA Paper<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QPr0EHEkh4g/UjZTl2eAz4I/AAAAAAAAFNk/txXiMge1y5Y/s1600/Ketchum+Melba+Toast.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="275" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QPr0EHEkh4g/UjZTl2eAz4I/AAAAAAAAFNk/txXiMge1y5Y/s320/Ketchum+Melba+Toast.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
<b><span style="color: #990000;">BIGFOOT'S BLOG<br />Mid-September 2013 Edition</span></b><br />
<br />
A longtime friend of mine, a tenured faculty member in biochemistry at a research university, with a Ph.D. from Harvard, has analyzed the Ketchum "Bigfoot DNA" paper, its techniques and methods, and its aftermath. Here is his statement:<br />
<br />
<b>"<span style="color: #cc0000;">Melba Is Toast</span></b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>The paper by Melba Ketchum and co-workers, published in an online journal Ketchum purchased just to publish her results, appears to be the product of careless work on impure samples and highly improbable conclusions. Here is a list of problems with the work. It is no doubt incomplete, but these are the obvious points.</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>1) The polymerase chain reaction (PCR) is a method for amplifying DNA. Ketchum and her team used it to obtain analyzable amounts of DNA from their samples. Since PCR amplifies DNA exponentially, any contaminating DNA can yield artifacts. This can reveal itself in products of unexpected size and sequence. The most likely interpretation of their observation of unusual products resulting from PCR of the samples is contamination. If one is not extremely careful with how one handles the source of the DNA samples, like hair, and the isolation of the DNA and all steps prior to PCR, then contamination is not just a possibility but a likelihood. Contaminating DNA can come merely from superficial contact, as it is on skin and hair. It could already be the sample (for instance, if the animal had killed and eaten another animal). It can originate from humans handling the samples or from any other organism whose DNA is present at any point, not only on site or during transport of the sample but also in any of the labs or facilities from any material that comes into contact with the sample (bench tops, improperly washed or autoclaved tubes or other lab implements, etc.) or even from bacteria on dust particles, which can be a problem if samples are exposed to the air for long. With regard to dust particles, much of the dust present in any normal setting under non-sterile conditions comes from human skin flakes (all people are constantly shedding very tiny flakes of skin, which contain not only human DNA but also microbes that feed on the skin). So there are myriad possible sources for contaminating DNA. One must be extremely careful to minimize such contamination in handling samples, especially for a very sensitive technique like PCR.</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>2) Other issues that can result in strange results are degraded DNA, as well as trivial but common things such as DNA polymerase enzyme that is no longer functional because of denaturation, forgetting to add a component of a reaction like the nucleoside triphosphate cocktail, not using the right buffer, etc. Experiments can fail and yield "false negatives" in addition to "false positives" or results that are "erroneous" in that they do not reflect what one thinks one is testing. This happens all the time. It is just the nature of experimentation, where there are many variables and many things that can go wrong, often without one ever knowing what went wrong. This is why it is so critical to be very careful with samples, perform the appropriate controls and repeat the experiments several times over (at least) to see if the results are repeatable.</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>3) Ketchum and co-workers found some European haplotypes from sequencing of their PCR products. They conclude, implausibly, that this is supported by the Solutrean hypothesis, an obscure idea that humans came over from Europe. The only basis for this hypothesis is that tools of the Solutrean culture, which existed in Europe between 17,000 and 20,000 years ago, seem to resemble tools from the Clovis culture, which developed in North America around 13,000 years ago. There are huge problems with this hypothesis - that Europeans came to North America around 13,000 years ago and spread tool-making to the mostly Asian-derived Native American population. Most archeaological and carbon-dating experiments emphatically do not support it. So why do Ketchum and co-workers jump to the most unlikely and assumption-laden conclusion to explain their data? Applying Occam's razor - that one should first go with and test the simplest of hypotheses when there are multiple explanations for something - would lead one to conclude that the sample was contaminated by one of the team members of European extraction.</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>4) In addition to the genotyping and sequence analysis, Ketchum and co-workers used electron microscopy to look at the DNA samples and found that some of the DNA would base pair with one complementary strand, but other parts would not base pair with anything at all and remain single stranded or base pair with another DNA molecule. Such DNA, if it originated from a single source, would be very strange. Even if they were, as they claim, looking at DNA from a hybrid of a female human and a non-human hominid male, the DNA would form double helical molecules. (A single or very small related source of maternal inheritance is concluded by Ketchum and her team since the mitochondrial DNA is human and seems to be from one source; mitochondrial DNA, unlike nuclear DNA, is inherited exclusively from the mother.) Ketchum and her team's assumption that their data support the notion of a single or very limited mating between a female human founder and a male non-human hominid is highly problematic, to say the least. First of all, the DNA would have undergone extensive DNA recombination since the time that the human and non-human hominid mated. Secondly, for successful mating to occur, the non-human hominid would have to be very closely related to humans. In that case, the DNA, even the non-coding regions, would be very similar and hybridization between the two would occur with nucleotide mismatches not going for long stretches of DNA for any given length of DNA; mismatching resulting in looped-out single strands would therefore not be observable by electron microscopy. Thirdly, even if the mating was between a human and a relatively distantly related non-human hominid (so that there was more extensive base mismatching) and was a relatively recent mating (so that much recombination would not have occurred yet), the two complementary strands of DNA from each chromosome from both the human and non-hominid ancestor would base pair with its own perfect complement rather than the other molecule (since that would be the most stable base-pairing pattern).</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>5) To reiterate and add to some points above related to the way their conclusions were an implausible stretch of the imagination, only relatively related species can mate and have fertile offspring. So the DNA should be very closely related one to the other. Even if they were more distantly related and bore fertile offspring, the sequences would be highly similar due to DNA recombination (and after 13,000 years or many hundreds of generations, there would be extensive recombination). Another weird assumption they make is that, while the hybridization resulted in fertile offspring, the offspring then did not mate with other pure humans or pure non-human hominid. Why did the hybridization occur only once or a limited number of times at the same period and place? Why was the hybridization confined to a human female and male non-human hominid? Why not a female non-human hominid and male human also (which is ruled out, even in their strange paradigm, by their not seeing non-human mitochondrial DNA)? How was an initial population big enough to support a breeding population generated? Obviously, there would have to have then been a lot of inbreeding, but how were enough even generated from a limited hybridization to lead to a non-out-breeding Sasquatch lineage from 13,000 years ago to the present? If the non-human hominid could breed with a human, why did it only breed with a supposed European-derived human in America 13,000 years ago and not also with Asian-derived humans, who obviously came over the ice bridge from Siberia to establish the Native American genome (by the way, there is no evidence of the presumed European ancestor in the Native American genome at all)? Also, why would all of the hybrids go off, live an isolated existence and not leave tangible evidence of this existence? What happened to the presumed non-human hominid that was the male founder of the Sasquatch lineage? It went extinct without leaving any archaeological or anthropological evidence of its existence? One could go on. It's all so very unlikely. It's a house of cards made of one flimsy card after another. It defies all evidence, any logic and is the product of pure faith.</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>6) A more minor point is that the Ketchum paper contains mistakes in interpretation or representation of the published literature. This reflects poor scholarship. In addition, there are many typos in Ketchum's response to the reviewers that was leaked. While this in and of itself does not necessarily mean that their handling of the samples or conclusions was sloppy (the above points do), it does show that they can be hasty, not pay attention to details and make statements without thinking too deeply about them. It is only human to view someone who is sloppy about a lot of little things as sloppy in big ways too, and it is often a correct conclusion.</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>It appears almost certain that the team was dealing with mixed samples of DNA, including contamination from team members or other people who may have handled the samples, and that they grasped at the least plausible answers to their results over and over again. They wanted to prove the existence of Sasquatch. Moreover, they were willing to go to very strange "places" in their interpretation of data that again and again most likely reflected contaminated DNA samples. They kept looking at the data and saying how can this prove that Sasquatch exists, reaching the least likely conclusions to support a more and more outlandish Sasquatch. This creature is as unlikely as the proverbial little green men."</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2Z1YfRUGYUw/UjZTS-6fYmI/AAAAAAAAFNc/KN1OsZCNOyo/s1600/ANGRY+BIGFOOT.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2Z1YfRUGYUw/UjZTS-6fYmI/AAAAAAAAFNc/KN1OsZCNOyo/s1600/ANGRY+BIGFOOT.gif" /></a><br />
<br /><div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com37tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-45546321244547212022013-08-15T18:08:00.000-07:002013-08-15T18:14:17.031-07:00SKEPTOID BOTCHES ANALYSIS OF THE PATTERSON-GIMLIN BIGFOOT FILM<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CusaeQRWuTI/Ug16odPcv_I/AAAAAAAAFAA/yel8LN22rqk/s1600/Skeptoid.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CusaeQRWuTI/Ug16odPcv_I/AAAAAAAAFAA/yel8LN22rqk/s1600/Skeptoid.jpg" style="cursor: move;" /></a></div>
<b>BIGFOOT'S BLOG</b><br />
AUGUST 15th, 2013 Edition<br />
<br />
The latest episode of my favorite podcast, <b><a href="http://skeptoid.com/">SKEPTOID</a></b>, by Brian Dunning, covers the <b><a href="http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4375">PATTERSON-GIMLIN</a></b> Bigfoot film.<br />
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Here is the link:<br />
<a href="http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4375">http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4375</a> <br />
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Though I love this podcast (yes, I really do!), as I listened to it this time I couldn't help but feel that his answers to problems and refutations of issues were too facile, in the way of skeptical dismissal rather than true skeptical analysis. Yes, there is a difference, folks. Many of his points raised were actually based upon fallacies and misinformation. I re-read the transcript, cutting and pasting parts that I found to be erroneous. These are just off the top of my head, but based upon some ten years of studying the history of this film here in Willow Creek and doing extensive research in the Bluff Creek area.<br />
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So, for what it is worth, here are the points I found troublesome. Go to the <a href="http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4375">transcription page</a> for the podcast and read the whole thing for yourself. Can you find any more problems? Are there problems with the problems I have raised? Well, post them in the comments below. Documentation of these issues surrounding Bigfoot in Bluff Creek can be very tricky, as they have found scattered publication (no, Greg Long's book is not the end-all of information), and much of it is based upon oral history here in the local area. I'm open to additions, subtractions and corrections to the following list. Thanks!<br />
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<b>SKEPTOID PGF ERRORS: </b><br />
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* Bob Gimlin remained silent for 25 years
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* he began speaking about it in the 1990s
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* The original film no longer exists (unknown)
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* no record of anyone ever having possessed the original print
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* The original also would have included any other shots that were taken
(we do have a copy of the full film roll, with all shots)
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* Patterson covered his tracks very effectively (fallacious assumption
of hiding the truth not following lack of records)
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* full-time slacker (he did work, on his own projects, with determination)
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* Few who knew him had anything positive to say about him (FALSE)
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* lied about it (evidence?)
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* knew everything better than anyone, and nobody could tell him a thing
(not demonstrated by the accounts of his friends)
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* DeAtley ... who provided money whenever it was needed ("whenever" is
not true)
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* Gimlin had developed a strong interest in Bigfoot (not before 1967,
and at Bluff Creek he still wasn't a believer)
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* they rented the movie camera (no, only Roger did)
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* went off on horseback (they drove a truck)
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* creature obligingly stepped out of the woods (no, it was by the creek)
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* Gimlin chased it on horseback, lost it, but found its footprints (they
never saw it again, only going up the creek where they thought it went,
and only found a possible water mark on a stone, not a foot print)
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* 5 kilometers back to camp (slightly high)
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* drove 40 kilometers on rough fire roads back to Willow Creek (not the
right distance, plus much of the way was on a real paved highway, and
before that they were on forest service roads, not "fire roads")
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* loaded their horses into the trailer (it and horses were left in camp)
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* It was about 4:00 in the afternoon (NOT when they arrived in Willow
Creek, but when they left the camp site... 6:15-6:30 apprx. arrival in
W. Ck.)
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* glaring impossibility of this timeline (NOPE, so far it is just about
right, if they were quick about doing things)
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* holes and contradictions in those stories. In the end, the version
Patterson and Gimlin settled on (as in any telling of events, there will
be inaccuracies, plus... how could they "settle" on a story if Gimlin
"wasn't talking," and they always told basically the same story anyway?)
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* the only charter planes that could have flown that route that day were
all grounded (not necessarily true if a willing pilot had been found,
and there was a break in the weather)
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* Since then, few serious researchers took Patterson and Gimlin's story
seriously. (MANY have)
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* Throughout the 1970s, Patty Patterson, Al DeAtley, Bob Gimlin, and a
wildlife film company fought numerous lawsuits with one another over the
rights to the footage (DeAtley was not in lawsuits, but there was one
involving Patricia and Gimlin with Rene Dahinden. They wildlife film
company was sued for using the film without paying for it. That isn't
the film's fault.)
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* Long... met face to face with all of these characters who were still
alive (NOT Gimlin, though)
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* American National Enterprises, turns out to have been pivotal (they
were involved AFTER the film was shot)
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* Patterson had been driving down to Hollywood a lot (I think three
times total, not a lot)
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* trying to sell the idea of a pseudo-documentary about Bigfoot (among
many other projects, like his prop-lock and toy inventions, NOT just the
idea of a Bigfoot film)
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* based on Patterson's own self-published 1966 book Do Abominable
Snowmen of America Really Exist? (NOT REALLY, as it was a fictional
docudrama thing, but the book is written as non-fiction)
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* It was with their money that Patterson rented his camera (NO, it was not)
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* took some pre-production stills of his buddies allegedly on a Bigfoot
hunt, but actually in Patterson's own backyard (not in his backyard, but
in the hills outside of Yakima, and not "allegedly," but dressed in
fictional character roles)
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* ANE's movie was to be titled Bigfoot: America's Abominable Snowman.
(BUT, that was NOT Patterson's film, but a later production idea)
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* for a day's work on a film set (a day just in driving, a day there,
and a day back, PLUS, it was not a "film set" but a real wild location.
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* He met with the men once or twice to try on a gorilla suit and make
some adjustments (THIS MAY HAVE BEEN EARLIER THAT YEAR, as part of the
docudrama project)
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* Then one day, he drove down to Willow Creek (nope, that is TOO FAR,
quite a ways past the film site and Bluff Creek)
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* ANE's money had also been used to buy the gorilla suit.
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* It came from Philip and Amy Morris, established makers of gorilla
suits for carnivals. (NOT as Bob H. described it, with horse hide and such)
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* they had recognized the suit when they saw Patterson's film on
television (pure anecdote, plus the Morris suits are TOTALLY different)
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* Patterson had asked their advice in modifying the suit (not
necessarily the same thing as at Bluff Creek)
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* They also advised him to put a football helmet and shoulder pads on
the suit wearer to make him look enormous. Not surprisingly, when Greg
Long asked Bob Heironimus about the suit, he also mentioned that he wore
a football helmet and shoulder pads inside of it. (Conflation FALLACY...
the story about the football gear comes SOLELY from Heironimus)
<br />
* Patterson never paid Heironimus a dime (perhaps he didn't have to, if
Bob H. is lying)
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* nor ever spoke up about it to anyone (he bragged about it for years
locally, in bars, to friends, etc.)
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* ANE lost every penny of their investment (not involved)
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* Patterson immediately abandoned their pseudo-documentary and, in
essence, stole the film clip that was rightfully their intellectual
property (TWO SEPARATE PROJECTS, the docudrama already had been abandoned)
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* we now have a reasonably solid reconstruction of the film's complete
history, with plenty of space in the gaps to fill (CONTRADICTORY, either
it is solid or full of holes... which?)
<br />
* too lazy to take a regular job (no, he just didn't LIKE "regular"
work... he was more the independent entrepreneur type)
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* too much in love with his wife Patricia, and too many stars in his
eyes to stick within the confines of the even the flamboyant rodeo (non
sequitur in the extreme, rodeo was a part-time affair at best, and he
loved his wife like any normal husband, and so what if he had big
ambitions... that contradicts the "lazy" assertion)
<br />
* He was inwardly happy but outwardly grumpy (TOTAL ASSUMPTION, with no
basis)
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* while still being the rascal that he needed to be (bizarre assertion)
<br />
* Roger may have had a year left or five, and his thoughts were consumed
with providing for his beloved wife (what is wrong with that? BUT...
Roger expected to live, and said so constantly, while mass-consuming
health foods)
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* Nor was it with the deliberate mischief of a hoaxer. (But... you just
called him a hoaxer repeatedly)
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* He never paid his bills. (He was an ill man, struggling to make ends
meet, and he paid the bills as he could.)
<br />
* But, then you claim he is totally rich: "The film had been a great
success, and brought in a constant stream of money" ... surely if this
were the case he could have paid his bills.
<br />
* He never sold hours of his life. (NOT TRUE. He did work jobs here and
there.)
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* He never sacrificed his lack of principles. (Nonsense sentence)
<br />
* Even as a hoax, the Patterson-Gimlin film is perhaps the most honest
film ever made. (Really? It is just a minute and a half of a mystery
creature, saying little more than that.)<br />
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Anyway, that is all for now.<br />
When it comes to the PGF issues, the "Hoax Theory" feeds itself with its own presumptions, just as the "Believers Camp" feeds on its own wishful thinking much of the time. That is just the way it is, sadly.<br />
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No ANGRY BIGFOOT these days, sorry to say....<br />
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com11tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-26793812097556583452013-07-24T18:31:00.000-07:002016-09-12T13:46:44.989-07:00THE CONVERSATIONS WITH BIGFOOT DIALOGUES: The Anatomy of a Debunking and the Obstinacy of Paranormalist Belief<ul class="uiList -cx-PRIVATE-uiList__vert -cx-PRIVATE-uiList__noedgepadding -cx-PRIVATE-uiList__mediumspacing -cx-PRIVATE-uiList__lightborder" style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 11.199999809265137px; list-style-type: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
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THE CONVERSATIONS WITH BIGFOOT DIALOGUES:</span></h2>
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<span style="font-size: small;"><br /><span style="color: #333333; line-height: 16px; white-space: pre-wrap;">The Anatomy of a Debunking and the Obstinacy of Paranormalist Belief.</span></span></h2>
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<span class="fsm fwn fcg">By <a href="https://www.facebook.com/steven.streufert" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Steven Streufert</a> in <a data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/group.php?id=302563073109138" href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/smartbigfoot/" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Coalition for Reason, Science, Sanity in Bigfoot Research</a> (<a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/smartbigfoot/files/" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Files</a>)</span> </div>
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<li><a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HGs8RnY-dgY/V9cUBR20YMI/AAAAAAAAFw0/ecJE184Na_ERKwJot6NDtiLM_wcDhsHMwCLcB/s1600/Conversations%2BWith%2BBigfoot%2B2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="color: #333333;">Read the links below for the two articles published about the true authorship of this interesting little booklet about Bigfoot.</span></a></li>
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<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2011/04/conversations-with-bigfoot-update-final.html" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2011/04/conversations-with-bigfoot-update-final.html</a></div>
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<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/conversations-with-bigfoot-hoax-plus.html" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/conversations-with-bigfoot-hoax-plus.html</a></div>
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<strong>HERE'S A SAMPLE DIALOGUE HAD WITH ONE OF THE BIGFOOTERS:</strong></div>
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March 1 TH: Conversation I am very interested when you talked to the author and why he say's it is fictional??? There are some things that are written in that article only someone with knowledge of them would say anything like this. I investigated this article and determined somethings about the author. This article has also been show to some people that know about the "foots' very well and ....well were amazed that people are calling it a hoax. Interested to hear what you found out. All respect intended.</div>
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March 2 Steven Streufert I've posted the links. I'd be very curious to hear what you found out about the author and this booklet. I have gotten to the bottom of it, I believe, unless they are now trying to hoax me by claiming it is fake. I'd be very interested in hearing REAL stories like this!</div>
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Steve</div>
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March 2 TH: First how open and how much do you believe about what goe's on in this world. What do you believe in that are possible beyond your mind. Second do you think if someone say's they know something about Bigfoot, say "like they work with the bigfoot or the tribal elders are very knowledgeable of the Bigfoots". Reason I asked that is that I am not the only one that knows about this article. There have been several key people that are considered very very respected in the tribal community and would have nothing to gain by saying anything about this. There are things in that article that are only known to someone that has either held a conversation with a (member of one of the medicine clans)bigfoot or took a stab in the dark to make a clever hoax and "puff" got it right. Steven I respect you very much, not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. When I was given this article back last December, I immediately sent it to Arla Williams and Pete Buffalohead (which are members in this group) thy inturn shared it with senior members of their respected tribe (Arla and I come from the same community) and it was immediately asked where I obtained this article. They had to know, because no one should have released this to the public, it had details that should have been kept seceret about the "foots" So I started an investigation into the author. I am a 21 year veteran of civilian and federal law enforcement and used some of my contacts to track down the author and the original individual the "bird doctor"' as we like to call them. I found that there was no one at that university that claims to know the author and the department of education in the State of California doe's have one that spells the name the same way. So I put feelers out in that community, I was contacted in late March of last year and this lady "she used the name, "Mary Hoffman said that she is the daughter of this Ives best friend. We talked about 40 mins. She was very open and very straight forward. It seems that the name was changed to protect his professional reputation and his job. She was very reluctant to give up his real name. But the people that were close to him said that some found out about what happened and labled him a mentally unstable and was a "shame" to the university communtiy. I guess all heck broke lose and lots of finger pointing happened. So I assume he and others close to him started to "claim it was a hoax, out of fear and just out of options of trying to stay out of the jokes and unstoppable rampage of threats of loosing his job. No I agree, talking to this lady on the phone doe'snt give much credit. Just letting you know what I learned. Biggest part of this is that there is way way way way to much information in this article to be made up, if so, then someone hit it on the head as to what or who they really are. In another fashion, Steven I could tell you stories of what I have seen, heard, and felt while out in the woods. There is way more to this than people could possibly comprehend. If you like chat with Arla and Pete, they would be open to talk about it as well. Thank you sir for listening.</div>
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March 2 Steven Streufert Did you read my blog entries about this? From the author:</div>
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<em>Dear Steven,</em></div>
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<em>I'm stunned, flabbergasted, and incredulous that anyone--in any world, much less the "Bigfoot world"--would claim this piece I wrote on Bigfoot years ago (originally for a free street-sheet I was doing at the time, along with Jerry Martien, Mort McDonald, and other co-conspirators, called UNJUSTIFIED MARGINS) could take it as a "real and true" account. They are, at best, poor scholars, as even rudimentary research into the various claims made by the purported author couldn't survive minimal fact-checking; at worst, they are guilty of a willfully deliberate ignorance, as dangerous to good faith as it is damaging to those, like me, who enjoy using the imagination to illuminate reality.</em></div>
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<em>"Conversations with Bigfoot," as you accurately discerned, was a literary lark, a bit of an elegy for nature, and a little tweak directed at media and American culture. As to your passed-along question: In my 50 years of roaming the Northern California back country I have never seen a Bigfoot creature, no sign of one (scat, footprints, hair), nor met anyone who has--granted you don't meet many folks out in the wilds. That doesn't mean I dismiss the possibility that a Bigfoot might exist, but just that I'm one of those flinty old-school realists who only believes half of what I see and nothing of what I hear without reliable verification from a few trusted informants. I hope this unequivocally clears up all questions of fact regarding "Conversations with Bigfoot" for your readers. Again, my apologies for the tardy response.</em></div>
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<em>Truly, Jim Dodge</em></div>
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March 2 TH: That is well, I will keep my thoughts to myself. You need to talk to Arla and Pete. I will not be disrespectfull. But Information in that article is more than 110%. These are always were people are torn about this subject, people first just turn their heads and just 1st off blast that that encounter is impossible and that the information that the Bigfoot is giving can not absolutley not be possible. Well I will leave you with this, kinda hard to tell someone that its false and impossible if that person has had 1st hand encounters with similar particulars, makes it kinda hard to convience that person it is fals or fake, when or she has seen it in real life.</div>
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I was told by Mary that this is their response to people that ask about the article and it's nature. But hey that is only 3rd hand info. Thank you Sir</div>
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March 2 Steven Streufert I hold no judgment toward anyone claiming these kinds of encounters with and things about the Bigfoot. Rather, I am only saying that this particular case is fiction, and was meant to be so. I am VERY curious about the experiences people have with these beings, and am VERY open-minded about them. I do not think of Sasquatch as a "monster" as in the movies, or just a "mere ape" as in so many common views today. If they are a form of human that would mean they are the most important thing going on for us now currently on the planet. So, that is very interesting, indeed. I'd love to talk to you, Arla, Pete or anyone about all of this. It would be great if this page could be a forum for discussing what all of our experiences are and have been. So many are so private about this stuff that it is often kind of frustrating to not be able to hear the full stories. Hence, knowledge and understanding can thereby suffer.</div>
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I am all about seeing the world AS IT IS, and to me that means a world alive, mysterious, strange, beyond our current conceptions.</div>
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Best to you, Steve</div>
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TH: Very good to hear Steve, most are not open, I have to tell you, I see your point, but if it is a hoax or fiction. This person is right on the money about what a Bigfoot would say if someone came across. the thing about the moons, the ability to speak where no words are visible, being on his "final walk" the whole things is actually "right on the money" Like I said this has been shared with some people that are way more intune with them and said, that this should have never been shared with the public, because it speaks of things that the elders would never or speak of to anyone that is not open or have had the similar experience. A dilemma for sure. There is so much about them that people would never comprehend. But I work with Arla, Pete, Darrell (choctaw pastor-not on FB) and others. I grew up in Oklahoma in Creek Nation, I come from Choctaw and Cherokee blood. I have seen things that are not the common. People probably would freek if they knew what really goe's on in this world. Most we never speak of in open forum. Save is doing a great thing here bringing people together to share.</div>
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10 hours ago TH: Steven after we spoke about this at the begining of the month, I sent a printed copy to Darrell Williams he is a pastor and tribal elder of the indian church in SE Oklahoma. He works with the "Foots" and with 4 other elders. He doesn't own a computer and that is why I had to send him a hard copy. Here is what he said "Troy why would someone post this on the internet" "I bet the owner of this story is not the person that had the encounter with the Bigfoot" "I would assume to that he is or has been getting lots of phone calls about this" "It is interesting to see that the Bigfoots in that part of the world have a medicine clan too" "You know like I told you 4 years ago that ours here come from the moon clan too" " I will pass this own to Jacob Lightfoot" I received Jacob's letter yesterday, "Troy been long time to chat, I read this article and find several interesting things. I would hope that the author or owner of this changed his name, I would never release my encounters. I have been laughed at and made fun of. This as I assume you know is to much information about the Bigfoot to the public to know" "I talked to James Ludlow's son he is a professor at OSU and he laughed and said that he would think the author would probably start to tell people it was all a joke so people would leave him alone" James also wrote, "I find it interesting about what the Bigfoot say's about their abilities, I have told you this Troy before. They can do things that will amaze you and leave you thinking about creation of man and this world, but trust me I know you know things, there will be some people that will challenge you on this, they will not believe Bigfoot's abilities. I say so what let them not believe, all the safer for the Bigfoot"</div>
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Steven thought you should hear their replies. I find some of their thoughts kinda interesting.</div>
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2 hours ago Steven Streufert T., that is fascinating. However, I know of the author well enough, as he lives here in Humboldt, and as I know a lot of folks who know of him better than I do, and as I know his other writings to a certain extent... and he is definitely telling the truth. He wrote the book as fiction, made it up completely. Unless, of course, you think he received it via psychic channeling, and wrote it totally unknowing that he was getting it from a Bigfoot. It is fiction, but if it strikes you powerfully that is nothing more than a good book or movie will do. If it is accurate it is only through the imaginative process thinking what a sentient, intelligent Bigfoot MIGHT be like.</div>
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about an hour ago TH: Maybe, I don't know much about other people's perception of the psych stuff. All I know is that everything in that article about what the BF says and what he doe's is right on, 100%, to the nail head, of what I have been told about them for many years. Every tribal leader, every spiritual native american leader that has a relationship with the BF and others say that the article should have never seen the light of day that information in it is too valuable. To many want to see that the article be taken down becuase it puts too much about the BF out for the wrong person to use for wrong purposes. I respect your thoughts in this and everything you provide in your writings. Too many experts within the Native American community has said that it holds to much information about what the BF says the to human. I am sure if he said it was a hoax, then he had something come to him about it and put it right on the money. Thank you sir</div>
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about an hour ago Steven Streufert What do you mean, "something come to him about it and put it right on the money"? No, I say, he simply made it up, and told me the truth about it when talking to me about it. I do not doubt him for a second when he says he has NEVER had ANY contact with a BF. Not only him, but everyone else involved from that long-ago time when it was first published has said that the thing was fictional, published in a literary journal. It was simply a made up story. Like Dances with Wolves, the film, as an example: It is NOT a true story, but it contains some true stuff about Native American culture. The thing is, the film makers and novelist who wrote the movie could do RESEARCH on the subject. However, Jim Dodge did not do any BF research. He just imagined it, pure and simple.</div>
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57 minutes ago TH: Well, I don't know what to say, but he said everything about the BF as they do to the elders and some that work with them. You know the BF can speak english and have in the past worked with tribal leaders and some. I have seen something myself that doesn't make sense and wonder how people would preceive what I have seen and heard. But what I was saying is as you put it is did it come to him in a psychic channeling. I have no clue, but he wrote of things only someone that would have had a conversation with a BF, specially a medicine clan member would say. Too many people , very very respected trbal leaders have said that this article should be kept from the public it holds to many secerets about the BF that some people should not know. I am just trying to say "the author claims its a hoax and done for humor" He has no clue what he stumbled onto. True as I am sitting here righting this, I will stake my reputation and my blood on this, there are so many things about the BF that science will never be able to prove, there is so much about them that modern thinking can not comprehend. We are so bent on science and evidence it closes the mind. I have been in the research of BF formally for 7 years....and I hear the same thing from witnesses that refuse to talk about what they see, I have seen several great 100% head shot video from witnesses that will die and fight to keep it out of public view. WHY? becuase some of what people witness and some of the video has paranormal appearance to them and they are afraid of people saying they are making it up and fabricated the video...I have more than 25 reports that I took in 3 years (total all reports were about 125) but in those 25 they were first hand accounts of encounters with more than paranormal events taking place. There is just too much to hide and ignore about the abilities of the BF.</div>
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48 minutes ago TH: I appreciate your forwardness and 'common sense" approach, but after being a cop for almost 21 years and bee involved in crime scene preservation and applying it to BF investigation and then after the past 1 1/2 years seeing somethings that completely make logical thinking go right out the window, define every thing I would think of physical abiltites of something that not supposed to exist but doe's Something that physically disappear into thin air, but can......just too much, and there are too many people that have seen them do this. Are we ALL crazy, but it is real, can't hide your face or turn our backs. There is just to much about them that makes no sense about modern thinking. Just chatting here Steven. Thanks for listening Sir</div>
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<strong>AND HERE IS THE (LONG, BUT) FASCINATING FACEBOOK "BIGFOOT AND BEYOND" GROUP DISCUSSION ON THE TOPIC:</strong></div>
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Steven Streufert I would suggest you first go to my blog and drop the book title into the search box: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com%2F&h=hAQEz7peV&s=1" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/</a>. The book/story is fictional, a literary hoax if you like. I talked with the author and publisher. March 1 at 11:14pm · Unlike · 1 person</div>
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Steven Streufert <a href="http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com%2F2010%2F06%2Fconversations-with-bigfoot-hoax-plus.html&h=zAQHmczc-&s=1" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/conversations-with-bigfoot-hoax-plus.html</a> March 1 at 11:25pm · Like</div>
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TH: Steve I am going to send you an message. March 1 at 11:53pm · Like</div>
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TH: I would not disrespect anyone's words. There is way too much knowledge that is written in this article. Sava created this FB so we can disscuss openly about Bigfoot and Beyond. There are things that are in this article that are only known to someone that knows a great deal about them. Hoax or not, way too much information in this article for someone to make it up. Maybe I am overstepping my bounds but education about them is what we are trying to go forward with. I trust Steven's words in sifting through the BS and finding the truth about this article. But again if we are here to talk about Bigfoot and Beyond. Here it is, I hesitated in posting this link, but if you want to get into the deep and most controversal part about this topic. This is one to work with. What is written about this is to valid to have been made up. March 2 at 12:27am · Like</div>
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Steven Streufert Here is the author's full letter to me... <a href="http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com%2F2010%2F06%2Foregon-sasquatch-symposium-2010-day-one.html&h=TAQENMXzU&s=1" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/oregon-sasquatch-symposium-2010-day-one.html</a> down a bit in this blog post. Read and you will see he has never seen Bigfoot nor heard reports of them. Also, I found zero, zilch, no evidence that Gordon Langley Ives ever existing. The author, Jim Dodge, lives around here, and I have met him personally. March 2 at 3:11am · Like · 1 person</div>
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Steven Streufert However, having proved this a literary hoax with no basis in reality as far as its story, I DO NOT claim that these things are impossible. I have not experienced a Bigfoot speaking to me in English, but I've heard very convincing accounts of "habituation" and had odd experiences myself which incline me to say we should keep very open minds on this subject. March 2 at 4:08am · Like · 1 person</div>
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AW: Because of my culture and my teachings I accept the Physical and the Spiritual side of Bigfoot.My teachings that came to me long before I ever read this validated things that were said in this.Whether it is a hoax or not there is turth in this story. March 2 at 5:22am · Like</div>
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TH: I have heard them speak english, on two accounts. There are three levels of tlhis that some of us use. (1) things we would say to friends, other researchers and general public. (2) things we would say to close friends that would laugh at you and other researchers that had same experience. (3) things you would ONLY share with if these other people could help you understand what is going on and has experience the same and these things would be uncomprehensible to the public human mind. There are things in thsi world that people laugh, make fun of, and say "that is complete BS and folklore and bunch of monkey doo doo" WELL LET ME VOICE my words here, there is more to Sasquatch than people could ever imagine, I am not talking running fast, superior strength, super night vision. I am talking abilities and life spans that go beyond current human thinking. If people claim it is not possible and not obtainable. Then great, some people have this knowledge of what goe's on. Less people know then that's for the best. Everyone has their freedom of speech and feelings. I posted this because this is where people need to stop and think for a second. "what if" "what if" ..........there are answers in that article....hoax or not, there are truth in those words. March 2 at 11:53am · Like</div>
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TH: Forgive me if I sounded little harsh in my words. But this article is a "key in learning" There is truth in it and this is where we have the tittle Bigfoot and Beyond. March 2 at 11:58am · Like</div>
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Steven Streufert Yes, and those who scoff at it simply do not know what they are talking about. They have not experienced it, or faced a Bigfoot anywhere other than on TV, so who are they to speak? March 2 at 12:22pm · Like</div>
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Steven Streufert T., I am a former college Literature major. I do believe that literary works have value, and bear upon "real life" quite strongly, however fictional they are. They're based upon life, so they reflect it and are part of it. Jim Dodge, the author, has never met Bigfoot, and denies ever hearing reports of it. He has lived in rural Northern California for decades, and loves the outdoors, so I find it a little strange that he says he has never even heard of a Bigfoot report from a friend. I hear them ALL the time here in my shop in Willow Creek. The work is, however, wholly fictional, according to him. It may just be that he imagined Bigfoot correctly by figuring what it MIGHT be like were he to meet one. March 2 at 12:25pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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Steven Streufert Why would you feel anything "harsh," T.? I am not scoffing at the possibilities, but only pointing out what I know absolutely to be the facts about this story. March 2 at 12:29pm · Like</div>
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TC: In my first, "Ghosts of Ruby Ridge", a novel, I called on what I knew at the time to be true about Sas... I wrote of many things that came to me in the middle of the night, as I believe all writers do. Some of these things I had no previous knowledge of and included them in my description of my Sas family simply because it came to me to do so... Today, some 2 yrs after the release of the book, I have learned a LOT more of the nature, the capabilities and the behaviors of this gentle giant and have found, almost miraculously, it seems, that ALL of those things I included without proof but merely because it was good writing, exciting copy and plausible have been proved to be true... they DO bury their dead... They have help people for a time and released them unharmed... they DO live in family groups... Therefore to say that an author cannot portray quality scenaria without personal experience is simply not true... However, that said, one must be very careful to assess and evaluate these statements in light of "truth" as it becomes known. March 2 at 12:59pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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TC: meant to say... 2 yrs after release, and 10 years after the writing ... March 2 at 1:00pm · Like</div>
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AW: This knowing is in all of us.My Ancestor Grandmothers told me we have all the answers we are just waiting for the questions to ask. People talk about Bigfoot carting people off and I seem to remember a report of someone in Russia or somehwere that was a child of a human and a Bigfoot. Our story of Tsul Kalu has him taking a young Cherokee Woman as his wife. Is there truth to that story? March 2 at 1:01pm · Like</div>
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Steven Streufert The author says this: Dear Steven, I'm stunned, flabbergasted, and incredulous that anyone--in any world, much less the "Bigfoot world"--would claim this piece I wrote on Bigfoot years ago (originally for a free street-sheet I was doing at the time, along with Jerry Martien, Mort McDonald, and other co-conspirators, called UNJUSTIFIED MARGINS) could take it as a "real and true" account. They are, at best, poor scholars, as even rudimentary research into the various claims made by the purported author couldn't survive minimal fact-checking; at worst, they are guilty of a willfully deliberate ignorance, as dangerous to good faith as it is damaging to those, like me, who enjoy using the imagination to illuminate reality.</div>
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"Conversations with Bigfoot," as you accurately discerned, was a literary lark, a bit of an elegy for nature, and a little tweak directed at media and American culture. As to your passed-along question: In my 50 years of roaming the Northern California back country I have never seen a Bigfoot creature, no sign of one (scat, footprints, hair), nor met anyone who has--granted you don't meet many folks out in the wilds. That doesn't mean I dismiss the possibility that a Bigfoot might exist, but just that I'm one of those flinty old-school realists who only believes half of what I see and nothing of what I hear without reliable verification from a few trusted informants. I hope this unequivocally clears up all questions of fact regarding "Conversations with Bigfoot" for your readers. Again, my apologies for the tardy response.</div>
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Truly, Jim Dodge March 2 at 1:15pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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AW: It really doesn't matter why he said he wrote it or how he came about what he wrote when looking at it from the perspective of knowing that there is truth there.How he knew,who knows? This is my perception however. March 2 at 1:19pm · Like</div>
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TC: Just as a point of note... There are books that Louis L'Amour denied writing until the day that he died that were published under a pseudonym that his son and wife found the original manuscripts to in his hand in his files... March 2 at 1:26pm · Like</div>
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Steven Streufert Well, he clearly declares that he is a Bigfoot skeptic, has never seen one or heard reports of them, and that he wrote the book out of his imagination. His imagination of Bigfoot may have been correct, or not; but the book is fictional, made up, a story. That is all there is to it, though of course, just like with poetry, one may take meaning and inspiration from it nonetheless. Literature is an expression of the human response to reality, and so embodies both us and It. March 2 at 1:52pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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AW: We live in an awesome world where things seen by most were black or white. This awesome world is now showing many things are not just black and white.The Bigfoot World definitely does fit with this view. March 2 at 1:55pm · Like</div>
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Steven Streufert Yes, there is more to reality and the universe than is known or dreamt of in our philosophies. March 2 at 2:03pm · Like · 2 people</div>
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TC: The key word there, Steven is "OUR".. they really are our philosophies.. not necessarily universal... March 2 at 2:08pm · Like</div>
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TH: Well either way, the comments from the Foot...need to be looked at maybe Arla can help me explain, the comments are that it teaches about the way Foots think and what they say about things. Just food for thought. If I was asked, people need to take it for what it means, and that is to tell the story, fake or real. The message is there, people need to wake up and smell the coffee. March 2 at 2:09pm · Like</div>
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TH: No Steven, wasn't think harsh, just things in that article are more than people realize, maybe never know the truth, no matter what someone that is the author. But people that know things about the foots, would be first to jump up and ask how did you come across this info when its "very real" March 2 at 2:10pm · Like</div>
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TH: I think if I wrote about my encounters with them, over the past 7 years, I bet some would be trying to cart me off to the VA or the psych ward. They wouldn't even try to believe what I would write. March 2 at 2:12pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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TC:l that was my worry in starting this book, TH... but, as in all things in my life now... the devil can take the hindmost... I will say what I know to be... March 2 at 2:14pm · Like</div>
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Steven Streufert I hold no judgment toward anyone claiming these kinds of encounters with and things about the Bigfoot. Rather, I am only saying that this particular case is fiction, and was meant to be so. I am VERY curious about the experiences people hav...See More March 2 at 2:22pm · Like · 2 people</div>
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TC: Steven... indeed they are a wondrous creature! and, yes, they are not an ape nor a monster... I was reading the data yesterday about the upcoming "Report" on Sas.. and especially Dr. Ketchum's DNA analysis... my thought was simply, I could tell her now what her DNA analysis is going to show, before she releases it... if she'd listen... but, no, they are in this to make a buck... should intro them to bfr whatever it is.... same motivation, it seems... March 2 at 2:27pm · Like</div>
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TH: You are right T., I have been with those people. I spent time around them and know their motivation to make a buck of BF. Seen it and know it very well. You know just like I do, the BF will only help some that have the respect and open mind to want the knowledge to learn. No where are they close to a animal and for that close to humand as we are. There are things that put them similar, two hands two feet and emotions and thoughts. But they have more ability than we understand. Why some call them "big brother" they are here to help us understand and learn. Our ancestors wlaked among them, and it's time for some that have the motiviation and emotional mindset to learn what the message is. March 2 at 3:39pm · Like</div>
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TC: T. you're going to love my next book, "They Call Me Sasquatch" you're talking about my storyline... verbaiim March 2 at 4:03pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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SM: I think there is so much that is unknown yet. We are all just learning and discovering the truths about bf. I think its important that we all continue to keep an open mind. Its hard to put forth new ideas about bf since so much is yet undiscovered adn still be leaned by many folks. March 2 at 4:09pm · Like</div>
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TC: it's much easier when they are telling you what to report March 2 at 4:10pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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SM: Thom- how do you mean? March 2 at 4:11pm · Like</div>
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TH: TC, weird, but I could write your book in private send it too you and it would be verbatim. LOL March 2 at 4:11pm · Like</div>
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TC: T., I totally believe it.. because they are teaching me that which they have BEEN teaching you for 7 yrs March 2 at 4:12pm · Like</div>
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TC. S.M..... i mean it literally... when I asked, "Why me" ... if you remember the movie "Field of Dreams" the scene where Terrance Mann is invited into the Corn Field with the ballplayers... That is what I was shown... that is the "why me" in this case... for over 50 years I have been pursuing knowledge of these wonderful, gentle, intelligent beings and for all of that time, up until this past Saturday, I was under the impression that I was "gaining their confidence..." March 2 at 4:16pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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SM: what happened last saturday? I must have missed that part? But yes, now I get the reference. For me, the whole bf experience has been once of constant learning. Just when I think I am figuring them out. a curve ball is throw and I realize how much I have to learn. March 2 at 4:18pm · Like</div>
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TH: T., I bet if we all sat down one day and said things about what we learn, un-related group of people would say we just traded stories with each other before hand. Uncanny with what is going on. Bet I could finish your book before it is written. LOL...but I wont LOL... March 2 at 4:20pm · Like</div>
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TC: On Saturday as I was writing the account of my history with them since 1958, I was told that this experience was not so that they could feel comfortable with me... it was to TEACH ME what I needed to know to do what I am now doing... the result will be "They Call Me Sasquatch" their story... and I am no more than the messenger as Terrence Mann was to be the messenger for those ballplayers... March 2 at 4:21pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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TC: T... perhaps in October? March 2 at 4:21pm · Like</div>
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TC: I'm on a 1 Apr deadline so it can be completed and published by Sept March 2 at 4:22pm · Like</div>
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SM: T.- your probably right on that one. We need to be less afraid of what others think and continue to share what we know and have learned from bf. March 2 at 4:22pm · Like</div>
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TH: I rememeber things, they come to me as when I was growing up, in the same place Arla did (weird). That I have heard them as a child, just thought it was coyotes, owls and other stuff. But it comes back to me time and time again. March 2 at 4:22pm · Like</div>
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TC. interesting how that works, isn't it? March 2 at 4:23pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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SM: yep, I was remembering when I was about 16 and coming from a friends home with another friend, when we saw something and heard something. all these years it had been in the back drawer of mind until recently March 2 at 4:24pm · Like</div>
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TH: That is why SM created this FB page, he probabaly doesn't know it, he was told too. But did it out of reflex. March 2 at 4:24pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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TC: I agree, T... .it's the best place for this kind of communication that exists March 2 at 4:25pm · Like</div>
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SM: Arla has a cool video I am hopng she will post. She doesnt know how to bring it to this page to discuss it. She has it loaded on her personal page. Anyone know how to do it?? March 2 at 4:25pm · Like</div>
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TH: I had my first encounter when I was 9 yrs old at a boy scout camp, in SE Oklahoma. Since then....uummm well, you know. March 2 at 4:25pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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TC: SM.. my advice to you... Talk to them... just sit and converse... March 2 at 4:25pm · Like</div>
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TH: They give information when you least expect it, when your driving, your on the phone, your in the shower (why they do that I dont know), your sleeping, walking, etc. March 2 at 4:27pm · Like</div>
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TC: they have been waking me up at first light.. because,he says, I have your full attention then... March 2 at 4:28pm · Like</div>
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SM: T.- i think your right about this page. I just continued to have the feeling that a place needed to be createdd that was an open and honest forum where we could talk and discuss with out judgement. I wanted a place where creativity and knowledge are welcome and not frowned upon. March 2 at 4:28pm · Like</div>
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TH: Yes between 4am and day break, I work nights and that is the time, I am somewhat overwhlemed. 4 am is a spiritual number, the number 4 like other numbers has a special meaning. The number 4 in music is a vital number that connects things that bring them together. That time of the morning is when things start to getting ready for the new day. The time to learn what to do for the day. March 2 at 4:30pm · Like</div>
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TH: That is also why we do they conference in Honobia, Okla for people can come to learn in person. March 2 at 4:31pm · Like</div>
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TH: There is a saying that the Bigfoot used to tell the guy in this article I posted, He asked something like "where do you live or something" The bigfoot said "over your shoulder". I read that and it was like an explosion. Over your shoulder is, that they walk with us, they are always there to help understand. We just have to listen and pay attention. March 2 at 4:34pm · Like</div>
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Steven Streufert Folks, HOW do the BF talk to you? Do you mean internally, or in person, or some other way? I'm not sure what is meant. March 2 at 4:57pm · Like</div>
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TC. Steven.. with me, with I hear them talk to one another of otherwise, discourse I should say, because I don't know who they are speaking too or what they are saying.. they sound very much like Ron's Sierra Sounds communications.. but when my teacher talks to me it comes into my mind very clearly like a spoken word... and very definitely in English... evidently he can receive from me the same way March 2 at 5:05pm · Like</div>
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TH: Same here Steven, or when I about to do something I get immediate words like, you better think, or kinda like your little voice inside you. But this is more profound. Kinda like something drives you with out thought or cognitive reason. YES wierd I know. But that is the world we live in. I also get words in native language. Year ago, while asleep I saw the word "No Nome" written not spoken. I asked around, close friend that is choctaw researched the words. Week later he called me and said it is very old Choctaw....means "To believe in something".....I get alot of native words March 2 at 5:11pm · Like</div>
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TC: Autumn commented that when she researched the native words in the FL area where Enoch lives, the word for man is Noch E... say that three times and see how it comes out... March 2 at 5:13pm · Like</div>
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TH: TC, to helpo here, I have a notebook, I write everything down in. I have words that are later translated from either very old choctaw, chickasaw or possible creek. They all have meaning. When you say them very fast they sound like.....guess???? March 2 at 5:14pm · Like</div>
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TC: it's so wonderful just to listen to them March 2 at 5:15pm · Like</div>
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TC: one of the things that shocked me was that I didn't need to be in his presence to have him talk to me March 2 at 5:16pm · Like</div>
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TH: That is correct, why the phrase "over your shoulder" means so much, they walk with you everywhere you go. March 2 at 5:17pm · Like</div>
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AW: My Elders taught me that we humans have shut off our hearing.We no longer hear who we are or how to care for ourselves,let alone to hear the Earth Speak.We are so afraind of hearing a voice inside other than our own we have stopped conversations that used to exist.We talked to the deer when we were hunting.We called to them and thanked them for giving themselves to us.My grandmother knew when things were going to happen with the weather.She called it reading the signs. March 2 at 5:17pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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TH: Why science only say's we use only so much of our other part of our brain......if they only knew... March 2 at 5:18pm · Like</div>
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AW: When I saw my first Bigfoot at age 7 and I asked my grandmother what it was,she said to me "What do,you,think it was" She allowed me to talk about it without fear of her making fun of me.I knew it existed and it was a good thing. March 2 at 5:19pm · Like</div>
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TC: can I share just a bit of the foreword of my book with you here without seeming commercial? March 2 at 5:21pm · Like</div>
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TH: Please no commercials, i see one more Aflac episode I am going to quack. March 2 at 5:25pm · Like</div>
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TC: No ducks for sure... but just dogs..... : These are knowledge and abilities that we too once possessed, I am sure, but over the millennia it has been bred out of us, civilized out of us and, perhaps, even beaten out of us. Perhaps it as a factor of all these, but as surely as the Pomeranian and the Pug were once wolves, the powers inherent in these great beings that was part of our being is as gone from us as the ability to bring down the great bison of the plains is gone from the Poodle and the Pekinese. March 2 at 5:26pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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TH: Europeans discouraged the practice of things that they do. Fear and missunderstanding on the true power. They were scared of it's ability, much like modern man is today to accept that he is not the alpha male of the woods. It's fear and missunderstanding that people fall victim too. March 2 at 5:28pm · Like</div>
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MJ: I have a group of Bigfoot that mimic my snore and samurai chatter around me. They try to talk to me when I sleep, so I have been told by others as they listen in fright. I mimic their sounds and they get excited. I wish I could bridge that gap, but it seems so elusive at this time. I do sense that they know I will not hurt them and that I revere the woods they live in. We have a connection the others in my group do not seem to have, but I cannot put my finger on it yet. These sasquatchs are in a very remote place. There are not that many folks that foray here at all and I can tell they scare everyone else away by the stuff that gets left behind, such as equipment and gun shells and half burned fires. They tolerate me, but have little patience for others. March 2 at 5:54pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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AW They see your heart MJ.They know, March 2 at 5:55pm · Like</div>
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TC: M., just TALK to them March 2 at 5:56pm · Like</div>
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AW: In the physical they read your movements,how you look,things you do. March 2 at 5:56pm · Like</div>
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TC: one of the things they do is TRY to intimidate people... if one can be intimidated, they do not want to communicate with them... you are being taught now, as I told you the other day... just as I was taught... keep speaking with them and one day they will answer you so YOU can understand it March 2 at 5:58pm · Like</div>
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AW: Trust what you hear. March 2 at 5:59pm · Like</div>
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AW: Trust what you feel. March 2 at 6:00pm · Like</div>
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MJ: Thanks, good advice. I will do just those things this year. She showed herself to me last year at the end of the year. I am expecting big things in 2011. March 2 at 6:02pm · Like</div>
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AW: I know you are. March 2 at 6:03pm · Like</div>
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TC: It will be March 2 at 6:04pm · Like</div>
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MJ: Thanks A.and T. You are wise and all knowing this evening and I am listening and I am smiling inside...:) March 2 at 6:06pm · Like</div>
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AW: I was smiling myself in reading what you said MJ. March 2 at 6:07pm · Like · 1 person</div>
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TC: It's not often when we meet one of the "cadre" March 2 at 6:08pm · Like</div>
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<strong>HERE IS THE FINAL CONVERSATION HAD WITH THE AUTHOR, JIM DODGE, PROVING THAT THIS BOOKLET IS *FICTIONAL*.</strong></div>
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<strong>BIGFOOT BOOKS</strong>: Hello Mr. Dodge, Remember me?</div>
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Anyway, I thought you'd be interested in the kind of things people are saying about your little piece about Bigfoot. Now they are implying that you are covering up the true origins of the story, that you MUST have had a Bigfoot contact, as the "information" in the story is "too accurate" to be fiction.</div>
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Also, if you care to comment further, I'd really appreciate hearing that perspective from you, however briefly or long-windedly, perhaps for publication on my blog. </div>
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Best, Steve Bigfoot Books </div>
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Dodge, back in the "FUP" days.</div>
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<strong>JIM DODGE</strong>: <strong>Dear Steven, As usual, pardon the tardy reply, but this was one of those instances where I had to do some heavy consideration about whether I even wanted to make the attempt to set the record straight given that approach had already failed. When the truth is taken as some sort of cunning dissembling or strategic cover, in my experience you've entered that realm where accuracy has no privilege, integrity seems to subvert honor, and honesty can be easily perceived as mockery, so it really doesn't matter what you say: people will hear what they're disposed to hear and believe what they want or need. However, I feel impelled to reiterate, no doubt as some romantic gesture to those days of yore when truth was an honorable defense, that my booklet "Conversations with Bigfoot" is entirely and wholly and without exception a work of fiction, a pure product of imagination, and that I have never sensed or seen, much less actually conversed with, a Bigfoot/Sasquatch, nor did anyone or anything in any way contribute to the creation of "Conversations with Bigfoot." </strong></div>
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<strong>However, because it annoys me that more than a few commentators whose remarks you forwarded indicated (to quote one) "that no one should have released this to the public [because] it had details that should have been kept secret about the 'foots'" I would like to know whose permission is required before I can publish what I know is a work of fiction? Is there some enlightened council of supreme moralists that decides what should be released to those obviously inferior beings who comprise the public, for whom accurate information is dangerous? I'd also be obliged to know how they justify the imposition of such "prior restraint" as something other than the crudest form of censorship, and who gave them the authority to exercise such powers? Also, I'd love to know if those powers are self-assumed/self-appointed, or if they are awarded by some governing body. I trust they appreciate my difficulty in seeking their approval, or even some guidance, before publishing "Conversations with Bigfoot", when I had no idea such a group existed, much less an address or phone number where I might secure it's permission or at least argue my worthiness to publish. </strong></div>
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<strong>For the many commentators who found it inconceivable that an old cracker-ass white writer, no doubt severely dain-bramaged from decades of drug-abuse back in his wildly misspent youth, could possibly make-up a conversation with an allegedly mythic creature that contained ". . .way too much accurate information to be made up" or "the information in this article is more than 110%" (of what exactly isn't clear), allow me, who has made up enough stuff to fill four books and a couple of filing cabinets, to offer an explanation. Kenneth Rexroth, one of the more astute literary commentators of the 20th Century, called the imagination "the organ of communion." According to the psychologist Carl Jung, the human psyche is composed of four elements, all in dynamic interaction and constant change: the sensational (the body and all its sensory information); the intellectual (knowledge and learning); the heart (the realm of emotion); and the soul, or personal spirit, which, like the other three, is embodied energy. At the nexus of these four elements, or "centers," as Jung also designated them, when they are properly balanced/focused/directed, a fifth element, the imagination, assumes enough power to become effective. The particular power of the imagination is to empathize and understand, to enfold and become the other, to voluntarily incarnate that which isn't you, and the more you can relinquish of the self, of ego-demands and attachments, the more you can make yourself available to the other, and to the world. It helps immensely if you can draw energy from what Jung called the "collective unconscious," which are psychic energy forms that humans have in common (and some other creatures), since they are based on "the ceremonies of existence," events--whatever our cultures--that we all share, and all pay considerable attention: like birth, rearing the young, coming of age, courtship, sex, marriage, securing food and shelter, making journeys, gathering and passing along knowledge, and eventually aging and death. Why would it be so far-fetch that a well trained imagination could conjure a Bigfoot and capture a bit of his or her social concerns, particularly when they're likely not that different from other bi-pedal mammals. The reverse is also likely: a Bigfoot imagining a human being. Once contact is made, communion can flow in either direction. And given communion, is conversation so farfetched? </strong></div>
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<strong> Truly, Jim</strong></div>
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<em>JUST TO BE CLEAR, Here Is the First Exchange, with Our First Questions, and Jim Dodge's First Email to Bigfoot Books on the Subject:</em></div>
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<strong>BIGFOOT BOOKS</strong>: Hello Mr. Dodge, I hope you are receiving email at this address.</div>
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I am Steven Streufert, former HSU student and current owner of Bigfoot</div>
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Books in Willow Creek. I'm also a blogger on Bigfoot topics.</div>
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What I really would like to ask you is: Are you the author of the</div>
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booklet, "Conversations with Bigfoot"? I would sincerely like to know,</div>
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not only as a Bigfooter, but also as someone who has appreciated your</div>
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writings in the past, and who still plans to finally get around to</div>
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reading "Stone Junction."</div>
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I spoke with a bookseller who knows Michael Sykes, Floating Island</div>
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publisher, and he has said that you in fact wrote this book.</div>
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There are some in the Bigfoot world who are claiming this is a real and</div>
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true account of an actual meeting with "Bigfoot." They are using this to</div>
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advance their theories that these creatures are not only human-like (or</div>
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in fact human), but also capable of language use and higher forms of</div>
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civilization. My impression of the work is that it is a literary work,</div>
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part lark, part philosophical allegory, part elegy to Nature, and part a</div>
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satire of the whole "hoax" idiom concerning Bigfoot in the media and</div>
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popular culture.</div>
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Could you clear this issue up, both for my readers and your own?</div>
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Also, there is someone who wants me to ask, Have you ever witnessed</div>
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these Bigfoot creatures, or does this story come from an actual account</div>
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you may have heard from someone you knew in the area?</div>
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Your attention to this ASAP would be greatly appreciated! I'm working on</div>
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a blog entry on this publication right now.</div>
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I'd love to ask you, too, some questions about Thomas Pynchon; but I</div>
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understand you're probably keeping mum on that issue. I've been thinking</div>
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of writing a blog entry on Pynchon as "Cryptid Author." That would be</div>
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fun, not only because of his elusiveness, but also due to his current</div>
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Bigfoot Bjornsen character and other Yeti/Sasquatch references in his</div>
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works (not to mention the Humboldt County connection!).</div>
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Thanks! Best regards to you,</div>
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Steve, Bigfoot Books </div>
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***</div>
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<strong>JIM DODGE</strong>: <strong>Dear Steven,</strong></div>
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<strong>Pardon my hideously tardy response but two things conspired against my usual alacrity: your message came to my HSU machine after the semester ended, and at a time when I was having some odd medical issues. . .odd enough, anyway, that they commanded my attention.</strong></div>
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<strong>I'm stunned, flabbergasted, and incredulous that anyone--in any world, much less the "Bigfoot world"--would claim this piece I wrote on Bigfoot years ago (originally for a free street-sheet I was doing at the time, along with Jerry Martien, Mort McDonald, and other co-conspirators, called UNJUSTIFIED MARGINS) could take it as a "real and true" account. They are, at best, poor scholars, as even rudimentary research into the various claims made by the purported author couldn't survive minimal fact-checking; at worst, they are guilty of a willfully deliberate ignorance, as dangerous to good faith as it is damaging to those, like me, who enjoy using the imagination to illuminate reality.</strong></div>
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<strong>"Conversations with Bigfoot," as you accurately discerned, was a literary lark, a bit of an elegy for nature, and a little tweak directed at</strong></div>
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<strong>media and American culture. As to your passed-along question: In my 50 years of roaming the Northern California back country I have never seen a Bigfoot creature, no sign of one (scat, footprints, hair), nor met anyone who has--granted you don't meet many folks out in the wilds.</strong></div>
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<strong>That doesn't mean I dismiss the possibility that a Bigfoot might exist, but just that I'm one of those flinty old-school realists who only believes half of what I see and nothing of what I hear without reliable verification from a few trusted informants.</strong></div>
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<strong>I hope this unequivocally clears up all questions of fact regarding "Conversations with Bigfoot" for your readers. Again, my apologies for the tardy response.</strong></div>
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<strong>Truly,</strong></div>
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<strong>Jim Dodge</strong></div>
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<strong>***</strong></div>
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<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-55851259830598174802013-02-12T14:21:00.002-08:002013-02-12T14:55:38.944-08:00JOHN GREEN Writes a New Essay in Support of the Upright Ape and Gigantopithecus Theories as Explanations for Bigfoot<br />
<div>
<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y_lBf33Vuzs/URq6BGHNndI/AAAAAAAAE6g/yxP1SOsnuiQ/s1600/Green+John.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="342" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y_lBf33Vuzs/URq6BGHNndI/AAAAAAAAE6g/yxP1SOsnuiQ/s400/Green+John.jpg" width="400" /></a><b><span style="color: #990000;">BIGFOOT'S BLOG<br />Mid-February 2013 Edition</span></b><br />
<br />
<i><b>HAPPY BIRTHDAY TODAY TO JOHN GREEN, THE "MOSES" OF SASQUATCH RESEARCH. HE IS 86 YEARS OLD TODAY.</b></i><br />
<br />
What follows was sent to me by Canadian researcher, Bill Miller, on behalf of John Green. It asserts some novel ideas about the evolution of hominins, but also reiterates the long-held theory that Bigfoot actually is (or is a descendant of) an already known species, the supposedly extinct giant ape, <b><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantopithecus">Gigantopithecus blacki</a></b>.<br />
<br />
I asked John a question about this and got a nice, long reply from him. That, too, is included below (exclusive to this blog), used by permission.<br />
<br />
Although it appears to have been overlooked by all media for several years the material presented below will inevitably become one of the greatest news stories of the century. <br />
<br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">
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<div>
<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3XUg_PxWr6Q/URrARktBc-I/AAAAAAAAE8U/INALR1wgTv8/s1600/Upright+Ape+Filler.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3XUg_PxWr6Q/URrARktBc-I/AAAAAAAAE8U/INALR1wgTv8/s1600/Upright+Ape+Filler.jpg" /></a><b><span style="font-size: large;">Sometimes It Pays to Be Not a Scientist.</span></b><br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">BY JOHN GREEN </span></b><br />
<br />
<b>Dr. Aaron Filler</b>, in his 2007 book “<b>The Upright Ape</b>,” presented ample evidence that all higher primates have been bipedal, walking upright on two feet, for over 20 million years. <br />
<br />
You don’t have to be a spine surgeon, which Dr. Filler is as well as being a Ph,D. anthropologist, to see that a fossilized lower back vertebrae from an African site dated at 21 million years is almost identical to the corresponding vertebrae of a modern human. <br />
<br />
Although there are fossil bones, and fossil footprints, showing that primitive higher primates throughout the ages have walked upright, and there are no fossils that suggest that any were quadrupeds, scientists who have been taught, and teach, that human ancestors invented bipedalism after they came down from the trees and split off from the chimpanzees do not seem able to get the message <br />
<br />
In a special edition of Scientific American dated Winter 2013 and titled “What Makes Us Human” none of the 16 authors showed any awareness of Dr. Filler’s book, and several had things to say based on the old mistaken consensus. <br />
<br />
But are not chimpanzees quadrupeds? They are plainly trying to be, but they can not really do it because they have the spines of upright animals. With their backs at an angle of about 45% they get around very well using the knuckles of their hands for front feet but they can not ever be normal quadrupeds because their spines do not have the proper attachments to keep them from buckling under load in a horizontal position. <br />
<br />
And what Dr. Filler does not say, even though he has presented the facts that establish it, is that there is now no shred of evidence that recent human forbears ever lived in trees. <br />
<br />
To quote something that Dr. Filler does say, most eloquently: “In questioning and rejecting scientific orthodoxy, no mass of credentials will convince a spurned scientist that he or she should give way and accept that they have spent a career believing, teaching, and publishing in error.”</div>
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Two thirds of Dr. Filler’s book presents an historical overview and then outlines a new look at the origin of species which will undoubtedly be controversial, but the material regarding the origin of human bipedalism contained in the last two chapters is simple to understand and rock-solidly based on physical evidence. <br />
<br />
And an interesting sidelight to the proof that all higher primates have been bipeds: <span style="font-family: Arial;"><br /> </span></div>
<span style="font-family: Arial;">
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3NuZ-TQg6z8/URq7EMxQivI/AAAAAAAAE60/ZRRw3Nx0wsE/s1600/Green+OM+BCM.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="400" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3NuZ-TQg6z8/URq7EMxQivI/AAAAAAAAE60/ZRRw3Nx0wsE/s400/Green+OM+BCM.jpg" width="277" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">John Green on Onion Mountain Road, above<br />
Bluff Creek, 1967.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
</span><br />
<div>
<br />
Until perhaps as recently as 100,000 years ago there lived in China, as established by three fossil lower jaws and a thousand fossil teeth, a giant ape twice the size of a gorilla. Since as a higher primate it must have been upright it matches perfectly the huge, very heavy, manlike footprints which human ingenuity is unable to duplicate, and the immense hair-covered bipeds that thousands of people claim to have seen in Canada and the United States. <br />
<br />
It follows that the many people who investigate Bigfoot/Sasquatch reports need to realize that their quarry isn’t likely to be some unknown creature sure to be a close human relative because it walks upright, but a proven animal that lived near the land bridge to North America and that already has a scientific name, Gigantopithecus-blacki. <br />
<br />
<b>John Green, </b></div>
<div>
<b>February 2013</b><br />
------------------<br />
<br />
Here is the link to the Filler book on Amazon:<br />
<a href="http://www.amazon.ca/Upright-Ape-Aaron-Filler/dp/1564149331/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360384758&sr=8-1">http://www.amazon.com/Upright-Ape-New-Origin-Species/dp/1564149331</a></div>
<div>
I asked Bill the following, and he sent the question to John:<br />
<br />
<b>BIGFOOT BOOKS</b>: Can you provide the date of composition, and a good link to the subject/article or whatever John is responding to here? Has this been posted or published elsewhere? <br />
I'm happy to post this, but I normally like better attribution and context, for citation. <br />
Thanks, Steve<br />
<br />
Here is Bill's reply:<br />
<br />
<b>BILL MILLER</b>: John wanted as many places that would mention this book to do so ... I posted it on <a href="http://sasquatch-bc.com/">West Coast Sasquatch</a> after I emailed you. John sent me the letter a couple of days or so ago. <br />
<br />
Here is John's reply:</div>
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<b>JOHN GREEN</b>: Steve,<br />
Look up "The Upright Ape" on Amazon. The author, Aaron Filler, took a PhD in anthropology, during which he studied a vertebrae almost identical to its human counterpart that was found in an archaeological dig in material firmly dated at 21 million years. Later he studied medicine and became a spine surgeon, an unusual and perhaps unique combination of qualifications. He also researched the history of theories before Darwin's about how living things evolved. His book deals with that history and he presents a theory that all major changes resulted not from accumulated gradual adaptions but from extreme individual mutations. That is what most of the book is about, and it would be hard going for the average Sasquatch enthusiast.. However: <br />
<br />
In the last two chapters he deals with what I have mentioned, that there is no fossil evidence that any higher primates were ever quadrupeds. All the fossil evidence shows that they all walked upright. There are no fossils leading to the chimpanzee, bonobo and gorilla, which walk half upright today, and their spines prove that they were originally bipedal. <br />
<br />
Remember that not long ago humans were believed to have split off from the gorillas and chimpanzees some millions of years ago, but then immune reactions and DNA established that gorillas split off from the basic stock first, while chimpanzees and bonobos remain very closely related to humans, not to.gorillas. This cuts short the time that humans were supposed to have had to come down from the trees and evolve into bipeds. The evidence is plain that Homo Sapiens as well as the others arbitrarily called Homo or Australopithicus or Gigantopithecus etc. follow the basic upright pattern and it is the gorillas and the chimps that are evolving a new way of walking. Both are called knucklewalkers, but the adaptions that allow them to use their arms in walking are not the same, while the orangs, even though they are much more evolved to be tree dwellers, follow a very different pattern which includes considerable bipedalism and the gibbons, although always in the trees, are fully bipedal. <br />
<br />
Someone many years ago came up with the theory that humans were quadrupeds that became upright through living in trees and then came down to earth, continued to walk upright and evolved feet adapted for walking on two legs. That theory became almost universally accepted a long time ago and is considered by most scientists dealing with such matters to be established fact. I expect Filler isn't the only skeptic, but he is the one with unique qualifications and the guts to challenge the prevailing belief in a book. <br />
<br />
I happen to have an atlas of primate anatomy with detailed drawings of vertebrae of baboon, chimpanzee and human. It showed immediately that human and chimp vertebrae are almost the same while those of the baboon, a real quadruped, are basically different. Since humans and chimps are designed to support their weight with a stack of vertebrae that rest on top of each other they have no attachments on the main bone column for locking the spine together in a horizontal position. You don't need an atlas, you can look up illustrations on the Internet. <br />
<br />
So Filler is presenting proof that most scientists are dead wrong about human evolution. If that isn't a big story I am not a journalist. <br />
<br />
<b>John Green</b></div>
<div>
<b>**********</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>BIGFOOT BOOKS</b>: Hi John,<br /><br />Yes, this is fascinating. To me, the knuckle-walking is adequate enough to show that the apes are not true quadrupeds, but are walking on hands with a somewhat awkward-seeming re-adaptation to quadrupedal locomotion. A full quadruped would, I think, not be doing something so seemingly awkward as walking on knuckles. This puts their hands in a rather vulnerable position, too, it seems to me. I'm no expert in skeletal anatomy, but I will look into the book you have mentioned. <br /><br />It seems to me that huge new discoveries about human (and potentially Sasquatch) evolution are always right around the corners these days, and progress in understanding is expanding geometrically. <br /><br />I'm wondering if I may also publish your follow-up letter here with the original essay Bill sent me? Also, any further words would of course be appreciated. <br /><br />Thanks! <br /><br />May I ask one further question?<br />[EDITED OUT. FURTHER CONVERSATION REQUESTED TO BE PRIVATE BY JOHN. THIS REGARDED SOME ESOTERIC BLUFF CREEK STUFF.]</div>
<div>
<br />I hope all is well with you.<br />Best regards, Steve</div>
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<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IFL2UyEjKrU/URq_lbQWHUI/AAAAAAAAE7w/FX0ERmnUon8/s1600/the-upright-ape.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="281" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IFL2UyEjKrU/URq_lbQWHUI/AAAAAAAAE7w/FX0ERmnUon8/s640/the-upright-ape.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
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Note:</div>
<div>
The original piece above was also published in the latest issue of the <b><a href="http://bigfoottimes.net/">BIGFOOT TIMES</a></b> newsletter.</div>
<div>
<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2HGHrS6_Hf8/URq88trJGmI/AAAAAAAAE7A/6PBenhAJShU/s1600/ANGRY+BIGFOOT.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2HGHrS6_Hf8/URq88trJGmI/AAAAAAAAE7A/6PBenhAJShU/s1600/ANGRY+BIGFOOT.gif" /></a></div>
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****************************************************
<br />
<i><span style="font-size: x-small;">This blog is copyright and all that jazz, save for occasional small
elements borrowed for "research" and information or satirical purposes
only, 2003-2013, Bigfoot Books and Steven Streufert. Borrowings for
non-commercial purposes will be tolerated without the revenge of Angry
Bigfoot, if notification, credit, citation and a kindly web-link are
given, preferably after contacting us and saying, Hello, like a normal
person would before taking a cup of salt. No serious rip-offs of our
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<br /></div>
<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-2619930680348080672013-01-21T16:40:00.001-08:002013-01-22T15:50:29.031-08:00GPS COORDINATES FOR THE BLUFF CREEK PATTERSON-GIMLIN BIGFOOT FILM SITE AREA<b><span style="color: #990000;">BIGFOOT'S BLOG</span></b><br />
<b><span style="color: #990000;">Supplementary, January 21st Edition</span></b><br />
<b><span style="color: #990000;"><br /></span></b>
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cUBOagQu_pE/UP3f17ah9EI/AAAAAAAAE5Y/cJQ1CJRhnoI/s1600/PGF+GPS+Map.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="188" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cUBOagQu_pE/UP3f17ah9EI/AAAAAAAAE5Y/cJQ1CJRhnoI/s400/PGF+GPS+Map.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Enlargement of detail of our widely published PGF Site grid map,<br />
GPS reading clearly seen.<br />
Click to Enlage, if you have to do so to read the numbers.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Certain "critics" of the BLUFF CREEK FILM SITE PROJECT have repeatedly cropped up saying things like we have not been open with the results of our PGF site research, and have been "secretive" about the true site location and coordinates. REALLY? I suppose the 72 videos we have done so far were not enough? Nor all of the blog entries right here that discuss the matter? Not even the maps published here that show exactly where the site is, along with GPS locations clearly marked? Not all the countless phone calls and visitors I've spent endless hours with in helping them find the place? Oh well.<br />
<br />
To make it easier for everyone... <b>HERE THEY ARE: 41,26.412, -123,42.115. </b><br />
That is right by the Patterson camera position. That reading is from Robert Leiterman's Garmin GPS device. Here is a map, with data points marked:<br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hYRJMx9V74k/UP3Ltso_zPI/AAAAAAAAE2A/nj_ujqqfCHw/s1600/Ian+GPS+Bluff.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="386" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hYRJMx9V74k/UP3Ltso_zPI/AAAAAAAAE2A/nj_ujqqfCHw/s640/Ian+GPS+Bluff.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Upper Bluff Creek, area of the PGF stie. The Bigfoot film action occurs around "Leiterman 2 up to "Big Stump."<br />
CLICK TO ENLARGE.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
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Here is some data for you:<br />
<b>TOPO! GPS Data Format DegMin NAD83 ElevFeet Local-Time</b><br />
AL-Hodgson site, 41,25.520, -123,43.198, NA, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 09-OCT-10 12:49:55PM<br />
Berm, 41,26.501, -123,41.966,2883, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 10-OCT-10
2:17:40PM<br />
Big Stump, 41,26.450, -123,42.090,2606, 11/12/2011, 15:52:00, 09-OCT-11
4:07:13PM<br />
BigRock, 41,26.281, -123,42.482, 2424, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 09-OCT-10
2:17:22PM<br />
CellSpot, 41,20.554, -123,39.680, 4065, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 21-AUG-10
1:23:13PM<br />
CellSpot1, 41,25.659, -123,40.101,4337, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 21-AUG-10
2:18:23PM<br />
CellSpot2, 41,23.894, -123,38.799, 4209,10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 21-AUG-10
1:45:41PM<br />
CellSpot3, 41,17.565, -123,43.786, 3497, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 22-AUG-10
6:13:05PM<br />
Clearing, 41,26.295, -123,42.157, 2620, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 10-OCT-10
2:42:31PM<br />
Dozer, 41,26.297, -123,42.151, 2532, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 18-SEP-10
1:15:58PM<br />
EastBatBox, 41,26.303,-123,42.357, NA,11/12/2011, 15:52:00, 27-JAN-10
3:36:40PM<br />
Leiterman1, 41,26.457, -123,42.180,2729, 11/05/2011, 16:26:13,<br />
Leiterman2, 41,26.412, -123,42.115, 2544, 11/05/2011, 17:23:21,<br />
Opening, 41,25.673, -123,43.223, 2340, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 09-OCT-10
12:50:42PM<br />
ParkingMud, 41,26.316, -123,41.468, 3139, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 18-SEP-10
12:36:10PM<br />
Rebar, 41,25.297, -123,43.283,NA,10/12/2010,04:56:24,09-OCT-10
12:03:43PM<br />
RockSlide, 41,26.405, -123,42.003, 2889, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 10-OCT-10
2:24:18PM<br />
Stream1, 41,26.266, -123,42.158, 2615, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 10-OCT-10
2:44:27PM<br />
Stream2, 41,26.209, -123,42.457, 2487, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 10-OCT-10
5:36:25PM<br />
TwinLakes, 41,19.203, -123,39.989, 3719, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 21-AUG-10
1:03:27PM<br />
View1, 41,26.348, -123,42.031, 2600, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 10-OCT-10
2:31:37PM<br />
View2, 41,26.312, -123,42.068, 3002, 10/12/2010, 04:56:24, 10-OCT-10
4:12:12PM<br />
<br />
These readings were taken by Ian C., BLUFF CREEK FILM SITE PROJECT founding member around the area and at the film site. The two "Leiterman" readings are the film site itself, added later to the above, though the reading for the upper maker was incorrect due to poor satellite reception down in the canyon at the time. The lower reading may be used on Google Earth and other places to find the exact position of the start of the film action. Some of the points above are off the map given, but still in the area, and may be useful to all.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LA_yhdOBapo/UP3OLToFp0I/AAAAAAAAE2o/sDzWiJzWF6U/s1600/GPS+Bluff+Full+Grid.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LA_yhdOBapo/UP3OLToFp0I/AAAAAAAAE2o/sDzWiJzWF6U/s640/GPS+Bluff+Full+Grid.jpg" width="500" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Here is an early map sketch published a LONG time ago now on this blog.<br />
Note the GPS coordinates we got at that time for the site of the first sighting, as per<br />
the memory of Bob Gimlin. CLICK TO ENLARGE.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
From Ian: "Finally dumped my GPS onto the computer. The actual coordinates are
below. The Leiterman waypoints are from the grid work, I manually
added them. The Leiterman1 location is certainly bad, it is about
200 vertical feet above the creek! However, that is what you get
from a GPS down in there. The rest of my waypoints I have very high
confidence in; they match up well with where I thought I was on the
map at the time."<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jFj51um4hIA/UP3OdvUOVJI/AAAAAAAAE2w/VrV5SqXVPI4/s1600/GPS+Bluff+Start+Grid.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="360" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jFj51um4hIA/UP3OdvUOVJI/AAAAAAAAE2w/VrV5SqXVPI4/s640/GPS+Bluff+Start+Grid.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">In case that wasn't obvious enough, here it is again, BIGGER.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Here is the latest map of the area that we have done. It is still being expanded and slightly revised. Note the GPS readings are on there, too.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0YGdoEUHCyk/UP3VKsG9sFI/AAAAAAAAE4I/K8lYKyqdjbo/s1600/Site+Map+2012+Large.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0YGdoEUHCyk/UP3VKsG9sFI/AAAAAAAAE4I/K8lYKyqdjbo/s640/Site+Map+2012+Large.jpg" width="360" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">2012 PGF Site Map. CLICK TO ENLARGE.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Here is what it looks like on Google Earth. Note that their notation differs in formatting.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tkbIrxGhNPM/UP3cpp49w4I/AAAAAAAAE4w/drSR9MyTaK0/s1600/Google+Earth+PGF+SITE.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="474" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tkbIrxGhNPM/UP3cpp49w4I/AAAAAAAAE4w/drSR9MyTaK0/s640/Google+Earth+PGF+SITE.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Google Earth, around the PGF site. CLICK TO ENLARGE.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Thanks for reading, this time. I do hope I don't have to answer these same questions over and over again for the rest of my life.<br />
<br />
Here are some images for you of the trip we did there this last summer, just for fun.<br />
<br />
Here is a group photo from down in Louse Camp.<br />
<a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=6272" id="ipb-attach-url-6272-0-46090400-1358803800" rel="lightbox[615047]" style="background-color: white; color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.166666030883789px; line-height: 18.333332061767578px; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: initial;" title="Bluff Creek Trip GROUP SHOT.jpg - Size: 90.06K, Downloads: 30"><img alt="Bluff Creek Trip GROUP SHOT.jpg" class="attach" height="300" id="ipb-attach-img-6272-0-46090400-1358803800" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-47684000-1343699329_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.166666030883789px; line-height: 18.333332061767578px;"> </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Back row: Todd Hale, Tom Yamarone, Steven Streufert, Ian C., Daniel Perez, Rowdy Kelley, Terry Smith, Scott McClean, Cliff Barackman<br />Front row: James Bobo Fay, Francis and Robert Leiterman, Bill Munns<br />Foreground: Monkey and Pre</span><br />
<br />
Here is another, on the site right on the trackway, to include all members...<br />
<a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=6273" id="ipb-attach-url-6273-0-47001500-1358803800" rel="lightbox[615047]" style="background-color: white; color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.166666030883789px; line-height: 18.333332061767578px; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: initial;" title="Group Shot at Site.jpg - Size: 135.84K, Downloads: 31"><img alt="Group Shot at Site.jpg" class="attach" height="300" id="ipb-attach-img-6273-0-47001500-1358803800" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-01544400-1343699692_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.166666030883789px; line-height: 18.333332061767578px;"> </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Cliff Barackman, Ian C., Rowdy Kelley, Todd Hale, Jamie Snowhorse, Robert and Francis Leiterman, Bart Cutino, Terry Smith, James Bobo Fay, Bill Munns and myself.<br />(Missing Richard L., the retired USFS hydrologist who joined us the first day, and Scott and Tom who stayed in camp.)</span><br />
<br />
Here are the original BLUFF CREEK FILM SITE PROJECT guys, reunited with Ian's return...<br />
<a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=6274" id="ipb-attach-url-6274-0-47018400-1358803800" rel="lightbox[615047]" style="background-color: white; color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.166666030883789px; line-height: 18.333332061767578px; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: initial;" title="Bluff Creek Project GROUP 2012.jpg - Size: 123.82K, Downloads: 16"><img alt="Bluff Creek Project GROUP 2012.jpg" class="attach" height="400" id="ipb-attach-img-6274-0-47018400-1358803800" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-48643400-1343699919_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.166666030883789px; line-height: 18.333332061767578px;"> </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Steve, Ian, Robert and Rowdy, in front of the Big Trees. </span><br />
<div>
<br />
Here is an image of Bill Munns just after he first saw the Big Tree, and then started pointing out the others seen in the background of the PGF.<br />
<a class="resized_img" href="http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=6304" id="ipb-attach-url-6304-0-47034200-1358803800" rel="lightbox[615774]" style="background-color: white; color: #225985; display: inline-block; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.166666030883789px; line-height: 18.333332061767578px; margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; text-decoration: initial;" title="Munns at Big Tree.jpg - Size: 268.23K, Downloads: 10"><img alt="Munns at Big Tree.jpg" class="attach" height="300" id="ipb-attach-img-6304-0-47034200-1358803800" itemprop="image" src="http://bigfootforums.com/uploads/post-37-0-48454500-1343868836_thumb.jpg" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle;" width="400" /></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #282828; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.166666030883789px; line-height: 18.333332061767578px;"> </span><br />
<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ggyWC7mPPzE/UP3O_PXKQ2I/AAAAAAAAE24/6RzQgyXFcVk/s1600/ANGRY+BIGFOOT.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; display: inline !important; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ggyWC7mPPzE/UP3O_PXKQ2I/AAAAAAAAE24/6RzQgyXFcVk/s1600/ANGRY+BIGFOOT.gif" /></a>There you have it.<br />
See ya.<br />
<br />
ADDENDUM:<br />
Here is a travelogue with descriptions of the route that Ian C. (crazy_ian) published on the old Bigfoot Forums back in 2007 from a trip in 2006. NOTE: Some factors may have changed since then. Enjoy.<br />
<br />
<div class="moz-text-html" lang="x-western">
<div class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="color: #990000;">So you want to visit the site of the
Patterson-Gimlin
Film? by CrazyIan</span></b><br />
<br />
<b style="font-size: small;">Background</b><br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">
The film itself has been discussed and analyzed on for almost 40 years.
I will
not try to add to the great information already in print and online. In
short,
I find the film very compelling evidence that there is a large unknown
hominid
roaming the Pacific Northwest, for the basic reason that in four
decades no one
has been able to demonstrate how it could be faked. </span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">
According to generally accepted information, the film was taken about
1:30 on
the afternoon of Friday October 20, 1967 on Bluff Creek in Northern
California.
The actual site is in the Orleans Ranger District of the Six Rivers
National
Forest in Del Norte County, very close to the borders with Humboldt and
Siskiyou Counties. The nearest town is Orleans in Humboldt County. </span><br />
<br />
<b style="font-size: small;">Getting There</b><br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">
The only main road to the area is Highway 96, the </span><st1:street style="font-size: small;">Bigfoot
Highway</st1:street><span style="font-size: x-small;">. Coming from the north, 96 meets
Interstate 5 between Yreka and the </span><st1:state style="font-size: small;">Oregon</st1:state><span style="font-size: x-small;">
border. It is about 140 miles on 96 to Orleans. If you are coming from
the
south, leave I-5 at Redding and take 299 west about 100 miles to Willow
Creek.
Turn right onto 96 and go about 35 miles to Orleans. From Orleans, the
fastest
way in is to take 15N01 (on some maps just called 15) north. The sign
in
Orleans calls this Eyesee road, other forest service signs alternately
refer to
15 as the G-O road. As a side bar, the G-O road was originally
conceived in the
1970's as a connector between the towns of Gasquet and Orleans. For
political
reasons, the final miles in the middle were never completed; that area
is now
in the Siskiyou Wilderness. Just know there may be multiple local names
for the
roads, so I prefer using numbers for identification. Be sure to stop
into the
Ranger Station at Orleans for the latest road conditions; just remember
like
most Forest Service offices, they are only open weekdays, usually
9:00-4:30.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">
15N01 is paved all the way to the end at Elk Valley, about 30 miles,
but you
don't need to go that far. To get to the film site go about 17 miles
and take a
left onto 12N12, Cedar Camp Road. This road is also paved. Go about 1.5
miles
and take a right onto 12N13. In October 2006, there was a small
handwritten
sign "Sasquatch Road" at this intersection. The road becomes gravel,
but was easily passable on my trip. Now you are getting close. At about
3.5
miles take a right onto 12N13H. It's about 2.4 miles down to the creek,
but if
you are driving a regular car, you may want to walk down. The road is
basically
okay, but narrow enough to scratch paint at the top. Near the bottom
there is a
section prone to landslides and covered in wet leaves. My Xterra made
it back
and forth in 2WD without problems, but a rear wheel drive pickup did a
little
wheel spinning before getting out. The slightest rain or snow would
make it a
real challenge. </span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">
Anyway, 12N13H ends at Bluff Creek. There's a small clearing with a
fire ring
and two, currently knocked down, bat nesting boxes. Here's where it
gets
interesting. Some researchers feel the exact spot the film was taken is
to the
left, down stream. Others feel it is upstream. I spoke with researchers
who
supported both opinions. I'm not going to name names, or say who's in
each
camp, but both views have some factual support, and I have a lot of
respect for
everyone involved. </span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">
Eventually I spent several hours hiking up and down the creek with
print-outs
from the film, and I believe it is just not possible to objectively
identify
the exact location. I did find two large Douglas Firs that could be the
one
seen in the background of the early frames. The under story in that
area is so
thick that there is no way to recreate any of the shots from the film.
The
creek has also moved around a lot over the years and has suffered
severe
flooding. Also, the road bed that Patterson and Gimlin followed is gone
except
for a few scattered places. </span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">
Once you are done at the film site, go back up to 12N13. If you
continue west
the road descends from the ridge top down into the Bluff Creek valley.
After
about 4 miles you will cross a concrete bridge (over Bluff Creek), less
than a
mile further there's another concrete bridge over Notice Creek, and
just past
this bridge is a left turn into Louse Camp. </span><br />
<br />
<b style="font-size: small;">Maps</b><br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">
Any good highway map will get you to </span><st1:city style="font-size: small;">Orleans</st1:city><span style="font-size: x-small;">.
>From there I strongly recommend the Forest Service map for the Six
Rivers
National Forest. You can get it at any local ranger station, or order
it by
calling the National Forest Store at 406-329-3024. You can also find a
good
quality scan here: </span><a href="http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sixrivers/maps/north/" style="font-size: small;" target="_blank">http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sixrivers/maps/north/</a>
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">
The USGS 7.5 minute quad of the site is called Lonesome Ridge. The
National
Geographic Topo! Software for California is also very handy. It has all
the
topo maps for the state on CD, plus you can hook up a GPS and/or
download maps
to a PDA. The Delorme Gazeteer for Northern California is recommended
as a good
source of intermediate scale maps.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Alternate Routes<br />
Bluff Creek Road, 13N01 will also get into the general area. It starts
on 96 a
few miles south of<br />
Orleans. It runs 36 miles to join 15N01 about 10 miles south of Elk
Valley. It
is a good road,<br />
paved all the way, but the Forest Service closes a few miles around <st1:place><st1:placename>Fish</st1:placename>
<st1:placetype>Lake</st1:placetype></st1:place> each fall to prevent<br />
the spread of a plant disease, so it's not a through road for a large
part of
the year. When it is<br />
open, it is about 21 miles from 96 to the intersection with 12N10,
which will
take you to Louse<br />
Camp. From there you can backtrack to the film site. One warning, in
October 2006,
I crossed a<br />
small landslide on 12N10 near Laird Meadows. It had been packed down by
other
traffic and<br />
was no problem for a high clearance vehicle, but it might hang up a
regular
passenger car. The<br />
entire area is subject to this sort of thing, so be prepared! <br />
<br />
You can also pick up Cedar Camp Road 12N12 south of Orleans and follow
it all
the way<br />
to 12N13. From there the directions to the film site and Louse Camp are
the
same as coming in<br />
on 15N01. Is a little steep and narrow in places and it's not paved all
the
way, so this an option<br />
only in good weather and with the right vehicle.<br />
<br />
One final important note, there are two roads shown on the Forest
Service map
that are no longer<br />
open. There is a section of 12N10 shown running due north from Louse
Camp to
13N01. I think<br />
this is way Todd Neiss drove in 2002. This section is completely closed
to
traffic, berms have<br />
been bulldozer at both ends. Also on the map, there's 13N01D running
from Louse
<st1:place><st1:placetype>Camp</st1:placetype> <st1:placename>north<br />
west</st1:placename></st1:place> to 13N01, this is closed too.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: x-small;"><br /></span></div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XhAgV1Rejnk/UP3TfroSnTI/AAAAAAAAE3g/067Ebb6O7mE/s1600/352-highest-quality-2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="456" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XhAgV1Rejnk/UP3TfroSnTI/AAAAAAAAE3g/067Ebb6O7mE/s640/352-highest-quality-2.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">High quality image... Click to Enlarge.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br />****************************************************
<br /><i><span style="font-size: x-small;">This blog is copyright and all that jazz, save for occasional small
elements borrowed for "research" and information or satirical purposes
only, 2003-2013, Bigfoot Books and Steven Streufert. Borrowings for
non-commercial purposes will be tolerated without the revenge of Angry
Bigfoot, if notification, credit, citation and a kindly web-link are
given, preferably after contacting us and saying, Hello, like a normal
person would before taking a cup of salt. No serious rip-offs of our
material for vulgar commercial gain will be tolerated without major BF
stomping action coming down on you, hu-man.</span></i> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com11tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8996974684243527907.post-77600255009213332632013-01-17T17:36:00.000-08:002013-01-17T17:36:00.412-08:00VIDEOS from THE BLUFF CREEK TRAIL CAMERA SURVEY<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0NQO-VZJJUc/UPijQgbmlAI/AAAAAAAAE0E/yIKgqOyW5W8/s1600/Bluff+Creek+Camera+1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="300" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0NQO-VZJJUc/UPijQgbmlAI/AAAAAAAAE0E/yIKgqOyW5W8/s400/Bluff+Creek+Camera+1.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Robert Leiterman and Rowdy Kelley at the crook in the creek near the<br />first frame, Jamie S. up on the sandbar near the Patterson camera position.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<b><span style="color: #990000;">BIGFOOT'S BLOG</span></b><br />
<b><span style="color: #990000;">Mid-January, 2013 Edition</span></b><br />
<br />
The members of <b>The Bluff Creek Film Site Project </b>currently have many high-grade game cameras mounted along Bluff Creek around the site where the Patterson-Gimlin Film was shot in 1967. This was a publicly funded research project, which brought in twice its goal in donations, enabling us to double our area coverage. Don't think of hoaxing us... the area is not only closed and completely snowed in, but we also have secret cameras monitoring the entrance to the are that will surely document any mischief. <b>See below</b> for the new <b>VIDEOS</b> showing the implementation of the cameras. We will have further results once we can retrieve the camera cards, either by helicopter or once the snowdrifts blocking the roads clear in the spring.<br />
<br />
Read the first article posted about <b>Bluff Creek Trail Camera Survey</b> here:<br />
<a href="http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/bluff-creek-film-site-projects-trail.html">http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/bluff-creek-film-site-projects-trail.html</a><br />
See final funding results here:<br />
<a href="http://www.indiegogo.com/p/201772">http://www.indiegogo.com/p/201772</a> <br />
<br />
<b><span style="color: #990000;">PART ONE:</span></b><br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" frameborder="0" height="415" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/76dAj0uXJPw" width="520"></iframe><br />
<br />
<b><span style="color: #990000;">PART TWO:</span></b><br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" frameborder="0" height="415" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7WMlP1Vr6ZE" width="520"></iframe><br />
<br />
<b><span style="color: #990000;">PART THREE:</span></b><br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" frameborder="0" height="415" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3E0g0Rb8IkA" width="520"></iframe><br />
<br />
See Rowdy Kelley's <b><a href="http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVvj3IYinKJDkoj8hfX2hxQ?feature=plcp">BLUFF CREEK YOUTUBE SITE</a></b> here for more cool area videos, including some grand footage of black bears:<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVvj3IYinKJDkoj8hfX2hxQ?feature=plcp">http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVvj3IYinKJDkoj8hfX2hxQ?feature=plcp</a><br />
Updates and results will be officially published here on this blog, but also on the <b><a href="https://sites.google.com/site/bluffcreekportal/">BLUFF CREEK PORTAL</a></b> site (currently under construction), run by Jamie S.<br /><a href="https://sites.google.com/site/bluffcreekportal/">https://sites.google.com/site/bluffcreekportal/</a><br />
<br />
Here are a few more photos...<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dsHE3-BXX6M/UPij4BlUuoI/AAAAAAAAE0M/5d5kwedxUUQ/s1600/Bluff+Creek+Camera+2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="300" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dsHE3-BXX6M/UPij4BlUuoI/AAAAAAAAE0M/5d5kwedxUUQ/s400/Bluff+Creek+Camera+2.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Tracking dog, with Rowdy and Robert</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mvlLE3sD3f8/UPikoVsOFzI/AAAAAAAAE0U/E54YWXNAe8M/s1600/Bluff+Creek+Camera+3.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="300" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mvlLE3sD3f8/UPikoVsOFzI/AAAAAAAAE0U/E54YWXNAe8M/s400/Bluff+Creek+Camera+3.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Rowdy with dual camera coverage</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-orgMG8e4ees/UPik7RoMfOI/AAAAAAAAE0c/FDZ8IZhY_Cc/s1600/Bluff+Creek+Camera+4.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="300" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-orgMG8e4ees/UPik7RoMfOI/AAAAAAAAE0c/FDZ8IZhY_Cc/s400/Bluff+Creek+Camera+4.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Jamie S. and his baby</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Vy7Gd-ud6wg/UPilzVsvHfI/AAAAAAAAE0o/-vrv142J9hc/s1600/Bluff+Creek+Camera+6.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="400" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Vy7Gd-ud6wg/UPilzVsvHfI/AAAAAAAAE0o/-vrv142J9hc/s400/Bluff+Creek+Camera+6.jpg" width="300" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Jakob B. and the Big Tree</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R7H1DoAsCz4/UPil-PeEmYI/AAAAAAAAE00/TaSGjef63Y4/s1600/Bluff+Creek+Camera+7.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="300" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R7H1DoAsCz4/UPil-PeEmYI/AAAAAAAAE00/TaSGjef63Y4/s400/Bluff+Creek+Camera+7.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Bluff Creek PGF Site, seen from dirt road above.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Gcx8BzWUZHI/UPimTZsoILI/AAAAAAAAE08/1oD3u8fv8nE/s1600/Bluff+Creek+Camera+5.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="400" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Gcx8BzWUZHI/UPimTZsoILI/AAAAAAAAE08/1oD3u8fv8nE/s400/Bluff+Creek+Camera+5.jpg" width="300" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">All photos above by Steven Streufert, seen here with<br />what we jokingly thought of as a "Bigfoot Shelter".<br />This photo by Jamie S.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
****************************************************<br />
<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Q2uK_X5mDO8/UPigeDLRREI/AAAAAAAAEzc/nWEonNkmtTc/s1600/ANGRY+BIGFOOT.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Q2uK_X5mDO8/UPigeDLRREI/AAAAAAAAEzc/nWEonNkmtTc/s1600/ANGRY+BIGFOOT.gif" style="cursor: move;" /></a><b><span style="color: #990000;">ANGRY BIGFOOT SPEAKS!
</span></b><br />
<br />
ME NOT TALKING. ME TIRED OF TALK, TALK, TALK, HU-MAN.<br />
<br />****************************************************
<br /><i><span style="font-size: x-small;">This blog is copyright and all that jazz, save for occasional small
elements borrowed for "research" and information or satirical purposes
only, 2003-2013, Bigfoot Books and Steven Streufert. Borrowings for
non-commercial purposes will be tolerated without the revenge of Angry
Bigfoot, if notification, credit, citation and a kindly web-link are
given, preferably after contacting us and saying, Hello, like a normal
person would before taking a cup of salt. No serious rip-offs of our
material for vulgar commercial gain will be tolerated without major BF
stomping action coming down on you, hu-man. </span></i><br />
<br /><div class="blogger-post-footer">All writing and most photos copyright Steven Streufert, Bigfoot Books, 2009.
They may be used with permission, notification, and a link to this blog.</div>Steven Streuferthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852437322070677310noreply@blogger.com2