|The PGF site and track-way location often seem like a moving needle in a very|
large haystack. (Paraphrased from a statement Sean Fries made about Bigfoot.)
If you can hide a film site in here, you can surely hide a Bigfoot!
|Bob Gimlin on the Bluff Creek "road," or, dirt and gravel trail. On the path|
of Bigfooting destiny. Filmed by Roger Patterson.
|A gaze seemingly from another world.|
The following conversations were conducted mainly via email, though in some cases are based upon personal conversations as well.
|Green in the A-and-E Bigfoot: Ancient Mysteries documentary.|
Photo taken from VHS on TV, by Steven Streufert.
We consider John Green to be the "Moses of Bigfooting." His early books clearly did more to advance the subject than anything short of the PGF itself. He did this with logic and wit, taking the subject seriously rather than sensationalizing it. If it weren't for his involvement in the field and during Onion/Blue Creek Mountain track-way finds, and his contact with Roger Patterson, there most certainly would never have been a PGF. He was one of the first researchers on the scene documenting the film site, though ultimately fellow Candian, Rene Dahinden, was the one to document it most thoroughly over time. From what we can tell, John was on the film site with Jim McClarin in 1968, then sometime around 1998 to 2000 with Bob Titmus, and finally went there in 2003 with the attendees and speakers of the International Bigfoot Symposium. Sometime before the last date the site had changed so much that Green could no longer recognize it with surety. Rather than trying to be a big shot about it, he admits this, and we find that honorable and true to his character and integrity. Green was also an original member of the Pacific Northwest Expedition into Bluff Creek in 1959.
|Green on Blue Creek Mountain, 1967|
Jim McClarin or Al Hodgson might be able to help. [ED. NOTE: Excision of one sentence for reasons of privacy.] I still think the only reliable test is if someone can locate a place wide enough for what the film shows and with a big tree close by on the hillside. "
|Byrne in the A-and-E Bigfoot: Ancient Mysteries docu-|
mentary. Photo from VHS on TV, by Steven Streufert.
Peter Byrne first found a Yeti track in 1948, so he has been at this business for quiet a long time. He was involved in the Tom Slick-financed Abominable Snowman hunts of the mid-late fifties, eventually being brought over by Slick to take over the Pacific Northwest Expedition here in our Bluff Creek area. He has been one of Bigfooting's most public and recognizable figures, always presenting a striking and somewhat heroic image in his fedora, ascot tie and safari suits. He is known to have been at the PGF site in 1972, and then off and on over the years as he retired from and then re-entered the field. Even at his advanced age now, he visited the film site again just this year.
The famous Peter Byrne Photo, Al Hodgson's Print,
given to him by Peter Byrne as a gift (it features Al's son);
photographed at Al's home, 2010, by Steven Streufert.
The old map from Byrne's book,
strangely out of correspondence
with any known landscape features.
Or, was Peter keeping the location
secret? And where is/was that bridge?
Click to Enlarge.
The Heart of Bluff Creek, and Lonesome Ridge
PGF General Consensus Site Area, Detail, MK to Barackman
|As a Preview to Upcoming Blog Entries, Here is a Sketch of|
Our Preliminary Findings of the Various Site Location Theories,
with a few common landmarks. Do CLICK TO ENLARGE VIEW.
|Sean with Cliff Barackman, 2007 PGF 40th Anni-|
versay Celebration. Photo by Steven Streufert.
Sean had been there with M.K. Davis on a hike all the way up Bluff Creek a few years earlier. The came to this spot downstream from the area most feel is the PGF site and felt it to be right, going against the general consensus of most other researchers. It is, according to Sean, 500 yards downstream from the bat boxes camp site landing, at the bottom of 12N13H. (This site has been located and confirmed by us--see our future blog entries, and in map, above.) We had this little exchange, among many others, with Sean....
The associate I'm going up there with first, in fact, fairly firmly suspects that the site is downstream, as you do. So, that would be a very interesting and productive trip.
[Ed.--That trip hasn't happened yet. It would be nice, though, to truly verify the site and come to a collective agreement as a research community before any "official" plaque is installed.]
|Cliff Barackman presenting at the 2010 Oregon Sasquatch|
Symposium. Photo by Steven Streufert
Enough said, perhaps; but we consider him one of the very best field researchers in the world. He loves to be outdoors and so, he says, he does it for the FUN. A good attitude to have when looking for the Bigfoot in a haystack. Here is the exchange we had with him, along with the mark he made on the topo map we sent him.
I've looked around on BFF, for instance, and found that people believe all kinds of weird locations are the spot. When GPS coordinates are given they are nearly always different. Perhaps, if you have a photo editing software program, could you mark an "X" or draw a trackway on the most precise spot you think is accurate? It took me about two minutes in Photoshop to do my own version.
Also, if you know the locations of these I'd really be happy to know:
* Jerry Crew's footprint find, the famous one
* John Green and Dahinden's Bluff Creek sandbar prints
* Onion Mountain and BCM trackways
* MK Davis' supposed "downstream" film site location
I want to see a map of the entire Bluff Creek watershed with accurate BF sites located. This, when done, would be available freely to all in the BF community, and I think would clear up a lot of silly controversies.
Thanks so much, whatever you can do!
Best, Steve, Bigfoot Books
The pic with Wally, Derek, and I was taken at about the middle of the east/west section right before the "bowling alley" turn. It is facing north. The pic of the thick stuff was somewhere in the middle of the path of Patty. Good to hear from you. Cliff
|Yours Truly and Cliff, after a couple of beers, after the OSS.|
Photo taken by "C.I."
Up across the creek from where you guys are in the picture is a fairly high bank (going north), as I recall, with some fairly thick foresty stuff in there on what feels like old river bar ground, high sand and gravel content up there. If I am correct about your location I walked around up in there last year, and got a very good "read" of the location as pretty similar to what one can recall in there of the film.
Downstream the forest is mostly alders, but up where you are, up on the raised area from the creek, there were more firs, I found. I guess the downstream part could be the very start of the film, up where you guys are in the pictures the end. But what if it all took place back away from where the creek bed is now? I got that feeling when I was up in there. In the film Patty is really pretty close to the canyon wall to the north.
And why is this even controversial? It's strange. The ground itself has moved, and the trees in the film are apparently all gone or so changed as to be unrecognizable.
Keep up the good work, on the hunt and on your blog & web site!
CLIFF BARACKMAN: Hey there. We were upstream from the spot the helicopter landed. I believe, though I could be wrong, that the spot the helicopter landed is thought to be the filmsite by Chris Murphy and a few others. My info comes second-hand from Dahinden through Perez. Dan showed me the map that Rene drew on pinpointing the location. This was seconded by Bob Gimlin when he went there with Bobo.
Others, such as Byrne and MK Davis have gone to the site in recent years and thought the location was downstream from the bat boxes, but this is based on what the creekbed looks like today, not then. As you noted, it has changed dramatically. Thanks on the kudos for my blog. It's fun. I like yours too. Cliff
|Cliff's mark on the map, just right of the Dahinden bump.|
Though I've been there and could tell you if we were walking there, it's hard to pinpoint MK's spot on that other map you sent because I don't remember the creek splitting like it shows. It's right about that spot, though. If I remember correctly, MK went there with Don Young, D-man [name edited for privacy], and Sean Fries. You probably know Sean since he lives in Weaverville [Ed.: excision]. He's gotta stop by your shop every once in a while. [Ed.: He does, indeed.]
I know this wasn't much help, but at least it's something. Let me know if I can be of any more help to you.
Take care, Cliff.
|Daniel Perez speaking at the 2007 PGF 40th Anniversary|
Celebration, Willow Creek. Photo by Steven Streufert.
His booklet, BIGFOOTIMES: BIGFOOT AT BLUFF CREEK is absolutely indispensible. Everyone must have it (and we have them for sale at Bigfoot Books!). We first found the general site area based upon his booklet (with some help from Bobo and Tom Yamarone), bearing the mark on the map that Rene made. Hence, the general location was without doubt preserved, thanks to the perspicacity and tenacity of Perez. Still, when first standing with Scott McClean on the very spot where it was supposed to have happened, we both still felt rather lost. We just could not see anything at all familiar in that first glance, save that it was a wild place with a winding creek in a big mountain canyon.
The location in what we are calling the General Consensus Area (see map above) ranges up and downstream a bit when we try to locate the actual track-way taken by the creature in the film. In the images below one may see that the location varies a little in presentation; and then, there are the accounts that emerged from the 2003 International Bigfoot Symposium trip up there, stating that Perez was downstream farther than the mark, indicating that the site was there rather than up at the exact marked point. Many there agreed, others disagreed. Some such as Al Hodgson felt the location was not at all correct; others felt it was off just because no familiar landmarks were readily apparent. Some simply thought it was a touch up or downstream from where the Symposium group had gathered. Later, Bob Gimlin himself, when up there with James Bobo Fay, put his seal of approval on the upper sandbar location.
|PGF BIBLE, no doubt.|
We asked Daniel about this, trying to clarify whether Dahinden meant the "X" or arrow on the map to indicate the beginning, middle, or end of the track-way. We also asked him about the information provided by Peter Byrne, as above. Here's the relevant exchange:
One last mystery remains for today. The above image is the most recent one from Daniel Perez, which he provided to us when we asked for an exact point at which Dahinden had place his mark. Note, in observing the image below, that the arrows in the two images point to two slightly different places along the creek. What is going on here? Is the site slowly moving downstream?
|From Bigfoot at Bluff Creek: the arrow pointing to the UPPER sandbar.|
Aerial image from 1973. USGS, as with the map below.
|Another map from the Perez booklet, showing magnetic north on the compass. |
The site? Also the upper sandbar. CLICK IMAGES TO ENLARGE VIEW.
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